From: George Murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Tue Jul 29 2003 - 06:39:29 EDT
RFaussette@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/23/03 3:16:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gmurphy@raex.com
> writes:
>
> > We are not saved - we are not "gotten into heaven" - by any law at al
>
> What is heaven George? - in the Catholic Encyclopedia heaven is being in the
> presence of God. Let's talk ontology. If you internalize the Law, you have
> only done so by abandoning the self since conforming to the law requires self
> control. Once you've abandoned the self, you've obliterated the subject/object
> dichotomy and are literally in the presence of God. You say the theology is not
> sound, but that's all you say. Can you make an objective statement like the
> above that supports your position? I haven't heard one.
> You conform to the law through self control, which is essentially
> transcending your physical desires.
> I am describing a process supported in genesis, in the NT, in the nag hammadi
> texts, by tillich in the courage to be and even Suzuki who describes the
> technique for achieving that precise ontology..
> You have made a declarative statement. Support it.
You have omitted the immediately preceding part of my post in which I "support
it" by citing Romans 3:20 and Galatians 3:21-22. I could also refer to Romans 3:27-28,
Ephesians 2:8, and numerous other passages.
As far as post-biblical material is concerned you might note the 1997 "Joint
Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification" of the Roman Catholic and Lutheran
churches. This says, /inter alia/, that "sinners are justified by the saving action of
God in Christ" and that "whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of
faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it" (Par.25). One of the
implications of justification is, "It is acceptance into communion with God already now,
but then fully in God's coming kingdom" (Par.11).
But as I write this I'm wondering, "Why bother?" Do you ever actually read what
people say & try to respond to it? You clearly haven't in this case.
Shalom,
George
George L. Murphy
gmurphy@raex.com
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
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