Re: Sin?

From: Robert Schneider (rjschn39@bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon Jul 21 2003 - 08:52:00 EDT

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    A propos the on-going discussion on homosexuality, the Bible and moral
    theology, there is a most informative piece in the Sunday NYT on-line on the
    historical development of legal strictures against any form of
    non-heterosexual intercourse in America, beginning with the colonial era.
    The authors of the study reported on here argue that sodomy laws against
    same-sex intercourse are a 20th century phenomenon as are increasing acts of
    legal oppression against homosexuals. The legal brief that presented all of
    this material is thought to have significantly influenced the majority on
    the Supreme Court in its recent decision on the Texas sodomy law. For the
    article, go to
    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/20/weekinreview/20WORD.html?ex=1059736497&ei=
    1&en=685038b6ebaa78ef

    Bob Schneider

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>
    To: <RFaussette@aol.com>
    Cc: <sbrasile@hotmail.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:22 AM
    Subject: Re: Sin?

    > RFaussette@aol.com wrote:
    > >
    > > In a message dated 7/21/03 12:32:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
    > > gmurphy@raex.com writes:
    > >
    > > > Taking evolution seriously does not answer the question of whether or
    not
    > > > the church should give some degree of acceptance to active
    homosexuals. But
    > > > it part of
    > > > the reality that has to be taken into account in dealing with the
    question.
    > > >
    > > > Shalom,
    > > > George
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > Taking evolution seriously is a reason for a church to reject the
    behavior
    > > totally. It is pretty clear from the Bible, Herodotus, H.W.F. Scaggs
    (The
    > > Babylonians) that religions began as ethnic religions, whose gods
    promoted the
    > > fertility of the people they protected. Differential reproductive
    success is the
    > > essence of natural selection. Any behaviors that decreased reproductive
    success
    > > in a milieu of competing ethnic religions would jeopardize the future
    of the
    > > people practicing that behavior. Religion and intentionally engaging in
    > > behavior that lowers birth rates are incompatible in light of the way
    religions
    > > evolved in the first place. Judaism arose in that very ethnically and
    religiously
    > > bound milieu of the Mesopotamian basin, in fact Ezra was a Babylonian
    high
    > > priest dedicated to the law and determined to see the law obeyed in
    Jerusalem.
    > > If you cling to religious absolutes, you must totally reject
    homosexuality.
    > > To the extent you elevate homosexual behavior above its traditional
    place, you
    > > compromise religion and that has been done in many churches already,
    which is
    > > fine if that's what they choose to do, but those churches no longer
    serve
    > > their evolved purpose which is the genetic survival and material
    prosperity of
    > > its practitioners.
    > >
    > > rich faussette
    > >
    > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
    > > In a message dated 7/21/03 12:32:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
    > > gmurphy@raex.com writes:
    > >
    > > Taking evolution seriously does not answer the question of
    > > whether or not
    > > the church should give some degree of acceptance to active
    > > homosexuals. But it part of
    > > the reality that has to be taken into account in dealing
    > > with the question.
    > >
    > > Shalom,
    > > George
    > >
    > > Taking evolution seriously is a reason for a church to reject the
    > > behavior totally. It is pretty clear from the Bible, Herodotus, H.W.F.
    > > Scaggs (The Babylonians) that religions began as ethnic religions,
    > > whose gods promoted the fertility of the people they protected.
    > > Differential reproductive success is the essence of natural selection.
    > > Any behaviors that decreased reproductive success in a milieu of
    > > competing ethnic religions would jeopardize the future of the people
    > > practicing that behavior. Religion and intentionally engaging in
    > > behavior that lowers birth rates are incompatible in light of the way
    > > religions evolved in the first place. Judaism arose in that very
    > > ethnically and religiously bound milieu of the Mesopotamian basin, in
    > > fact Ezra was a Babylonian high priest dedicated to the law and
    > > determined to see the law obeyed in Jerusalem.
    > > If you cling to religious absolutes, you must totally reject
    > > homosexuality. To the extent you elevate homosexual behavior above its
    > > traditional place, you compromise religion and that has been done in
    > > many churches already, which is fine if that's what they choose to
    > > do, but those churches no longer serve their evolved purpose which is
    > > the genetic survival and material prosperity of its practitioners.
    >
    > Your argument assumes that Judaism & Christianity are to be understood as
    > "religions" which human beings have constructed to ensure their survival,
    well-being,
    > &c. If one takes seriously the belief that it is God who saves us in
    Christ, that we
    > are saved not by what we do (including "religion") or are but by receiving
    God's gift in
    > Christ, then Christianity is not a "religion" in this sense. This is of
    course not to
    > deny that historical Christianity has many features which have been
    developed by human
    > beings for good or less than good reasons, or that Christianity has needed
    and still
    > needs such structures in order to carry out its mission. But if that's
    all Christianity
    > is then its fundamental claims are false.
    >
    > Shalom,
    > George
    >
    > George L. Murphy
    > gmurphy@raex.com
    > http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    >



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