RE: Predeterminism and parallel universes

From: Debbie Mann (deborahjmann@insightbb.com)
Date: Sat Jul 05 2003 - 21:17:59 EDT

  • Next message: Debbie Mann: "RE: Predeterminism and parallel universes"

    Richard at Bible Wheel has been asking for opinions of his work. I have
    responded that my qualifications are weak at best, I have a masters in
    applied math and have had extensive informal, general training in the Bible.
    I am widely, but rather eclectically, well read.

    My first response is why would God choose pentagonal numbers? Richard gave
    the fact that the fifth day was the day of creation of life and the fifth
    commandment was the first with promise. I'm not sure that I find these
    reasons to of great significance. He sites repeated themes showing up in
    correlated books. Psalms correlates to 1Peter, Isaiah to Romans. I looked
    for phrases that did not fit the correlation:

    To Richard:

    'The earth is my footstool' is in Isaiah and Acts - it doesn't fit your
    pattern. Whereas there are many things that do - I do not see how they are
    uniquely to be differentiated from those things which do not. What is your
    criteria for choosing phrases? Finding patterns can be cloud watching or a
    Rorshach (sp) test. The patterns need to be consistently uniquely
    determined. I do not see that this is so.

    There were all sorts of patterns drawn between Lincoln and Kennedy. What do
    you think of those? I do not remember them all - Kennedy's secretary was
    named Lincoln, Lincoln's was named Kennedy. This kind of thing repeated in
    their two lives a dozen or more times. What does it mean?

    It would be nice to have something that shows that the choice of books in
    the Bible as chosen by men was actually divinely inspired. How do we know
    that one or more other books weren't divinely inspired? The Catholic church
    accepted many for a great period of time. What about the book of Thomas? If
    your patterns were/are conclusive - then that would give some credence to
    the fact that the 66 books and only the 66 books are the divine work of God.
    But it can't be coincidental. One can't choose 150 phrases and reject 1000
    without giving a clear and unbiased reason for the choice. Do you have such
    a reason?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
    Behalf Of richard@biblewheel.com
    Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:50 PM
    To: asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: Re: Predeterminism and parallel universes

    Debbie wrote:

    >It's not like one could spend an hour and understand or review your web
    site. You have twenty two sections covering the whole Bible. One would need
    to at least analyze three or four to even have an opinion. This is not the
    work of an afternoon.

    You are absolutely correct. I'm certainly not asking for a complete analysis
    of everything I wrote! :-)

    There are dozens of places to start. The best seems to be the "high level"
    super-obvious pattern seen in the sevenfold symmetry of the Canon Wheel.

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/CanonWheel_FullSize.asp

    For those who need mathematical proof that this pattern is too rare to be
    reasonably considered a random occurrence, we could discuss my calculation
    of the probababilities, which result in one chance in 688,324.

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/probabilities.asp

    This could be augmented with a more detailed view of symmetries that lie
    below the level of the Canon Wheel (similar to the idea of broken symmetry
    in physics, where some symmetry remains):

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/symmetries.asp

    Also, those familar with the relation between symmetry principles and the
    laws of physics might find the derivation of the Canon Wheel from first
    principles of interest:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Topics/Derivation.asp

    And this article reviewing A. Zee's book Fearful Symmetry:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/RR/AZ_Fearful.asp

    Alternately, for those more inclined towards beauty, art, and theology, we
    could discuss how this pattern relates to ancient Christian icons of Christ,
    as in these articles:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Topics/Art_Wheel.asp

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Topics/BibleArt.asp

    Or this one relating to Blake's Tyger Tyger:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/RR/WB_Tyger.asp

    Another really good starting place is my overview of the whole Wheel called
    "A Great Cloud of Witnesses"

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/CloudOfWitnesses.asp

    Well, that should be enough to get the discussion going.

    In service of the Lamb of God,

    Richard Amiel McGough
    Discover the sevenfold symmetric perfection of the Holy Bible at
    http://www.BibleWheel.com

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Debbie Mann
    To: richard@biblewheel.com
    Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 10:26 AM
    Subject: RE: Predeterminism and parallel universes

    It's not like one could spend an hour and understand or review your web
    site. You have twenty two sections covering the whole Bible. One would need
    to at least analyze three or four to even have an opinion. This is not the
    work of an afternoon.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
    Behalf Of richard@biblewheel.com
    Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:17 AM
    To: asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: Re: Predeterminism and parallel universes

    In post http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200307/0100.html Don WInterstein
    wrote:

    >Richard McGough wrote in part:

    >>Let me make my point again. Consider a single free proton with energy less
    than 10^8k. That's one of Tegmark's possible universes. Its Hamiltonian has
    an infinite number of continuous eigenvalues. The eigenfunctions are plane
    waves, e^-iEt. Therefore, there are an infinite number of _distinguishable_
    states for just this one single-proton universe, i.e. every possible wave
    packet. Now add the interaction with 10^50 particles and all their states,
    spins, etc, and you have an infinity of infinities of possibilities.

    >>The number 2^10^118 as the count of all possible physical configurations
    in a hubble volume is absurd. Q.E.D.

    >I see no problem with this argument. Tegmark considers only particle
    location and not momentum, etc. A universe where the momentum of a single
    particle differed from that of the corresponding particle in an otherwise
    identical universe would be a different universe, would it not? If this is a
    relevant consideration, then, using Tegmark's line of reasoning as I
    understand it, the nearest Level I universe identical to ours would be
    infinitely farther away than Tegmark indicates. While this would not
    eliminate the possibility of identical universes, it would make them less
    relevant than ever.

    >So I think we really need to hear what Tegmark has to say in his defense.
    So, Richard, how about writing a letter to Scientific American? There's at
    least a chance he would answer in print.

    >Don

    I agree with Don and will compose the letter today.

    I think it is extremely important that we note again the complete lack of
    physical reality in Tegmark's binary proton model. A Hubble volume of naked
    protons in fixed locations is a strange model indeed. It shoud not be
    accepted as the basis for any serious speculation. And this is what really
    baffles me. I have presented rock-solid calculations, involving no
    assumptions whatsoever, concerning the probability that 66 objects grouped
    into seven arbitrary divisions would exhibit the radial and bilateral
    symmetry of the 66 Book Canon when displayed on the Wheel. The result is one
    chance in 688,324. Here is the link:

    http://www.biblewheel.com/Wheel/probabilities.asp

    Thus we know that the large-scale structure of Scripture yields an extremely
    rare and very beautiful pattern. But the pattern is not just any pattern. It
    matches the threefold cruciform halos used in icons of Christ in ancient
    Christian art. This links the geometric structure of Scripture to an icon of
    the faith that includes trinitarian overtones. Yet all of this is nothing
    but the tip of ten thousand wonders seen when the Bible is viewed in the
    form of the Wheel.

    Would it be possible to discuss my work in this forum? I just can not
    understand how people can be perfectly willing to speculate about the
    salvation of copies of Glen in alternate universes while refusing to discuss
    the serious and solid study of the geometric structure of the traditional 66
    Book Christian Canon. It seems that many have some hidden a priori reason
    for rejecting it out of hand, regardless of evidence. I have yearned for
    years for nothing but a simple discussion. I have published nearly a
    thousand pages on my site. I would like to know what problems or errors
    there are in my presentation. I would like to know what know what others
    think is most impressive and powerful about the Wheel. I would like to know
    what is obvious to others and what is not. I would like intelligent,
    informed, and thoughtful criticism. Would this be possible in this forum?

    In service of the Lamb of God,

    Richard



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Jul 05 2003 - 21:16:08 EDT