From: douglas.hayworth@perbio.com
Date: Thu Feb 20 2003 - 10:08:52 EST
David: That is indeed an interesting passage from Zechariah. I was aware of
the major difference between Pentecostal and Reformed theological views on
continuing prophesies. I personally come from a more Reformed persuasion
myself. Nevertheless, having just read through Acts with my 9 year old
daughter (we're reading through the bible together this year), I was struck
by the incidences and manner of the Holy Spirit's visitations. Not only
were there numerous (though apparently in time diminshing) cases in which
baptism by the Holy Spirit came as a second event after belief and water
baptism, but Paul and others (apparently without in diminishing frequency)
prophesied.
A couple of questions/comments on this personal revelations thread:
1) On what basis do those in the Reformed camp assign the timing of
fulfillment of the Zechariah passage to the close of the NT canon?
2) If the Zechariah passage cannot be authoritatively established as being
fulfilled in our time (without compelling scripture, such an authoritative
declaration is itself a form of prophesy), then I disagree strongly with
the assertion in an earlier post (I can't remember who) that anyone who
speaks a word of revelation authoritatively is probably a fraud while those
that speak it doubtfully are more likely valid. Although I myself use
extreme caution in accepting such "words from the Lord", in principle,
using the doubtfulness of the "prophet" is a totally unscriptural
criterion. I challenge anyone to find even one example of prophesy in the
bible where the prophet did not speak with absolute authority.
There's more questions/thoughts on this subject that I'd like to add, but
I've got to get back to work just now, and I don't want to write them out
so quickly that I miscommunicate. This whole issue is of some concern to
me personally because I am currently trying to find a church home here in
Rockford, IL. There are no PCA churches (the denomination to which I am
most theologically similar) in town, and the available churches seem to me
either too fundamentalist (I am an evolutionary biologist by training), too
liberal, too traditional (and arrogant in their hyper-Calvinism), too
hip-and-trendy (so seeker-service oriented that it's all entertainment and
little depth), or very Pentecostal (not to pass judgement on this, but it's
not my persuasion theologically in terms of its arminianism and tongues as
a sign of spiritual baptism). It seems that I will have to choose somehow,
but it is difficult to know which issues are most important.
Sincerely,
Douglas Hayworth
"bivalve"
<bivalve@mail.davidson.alu To: <asa@calvin.edu>
mlink.com> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: personal revelations
asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
02/19/03 05:33 PM
Please respond to bivalve
>There is no scriptural reason for saying that prophecy should end with the
Bible.<
Several verses could be cited, including Galatians 1:8-9, Hebrews 1:1-2,
and Rev. 22:18-19. The Hebrews passage is probably the most important, in
asserting that Jesus constitutes the ultimate revelation of God. The OT
also foresees a time when prophecy is no more, e.g. Jer. 31:34 or Zech.
13:2-5.
Zechariah 13:2-5, NIV "On that day, I will banish the names of the idols
from the land, and they will be remembered no more," declares the LORD
Almighty. "I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from
the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom
he was born, will say to him, 'You must die, because you have told lies in
the LORD's name.' When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.
4 "On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He
will not put on a prophet's garment of hair in order to deceive. 5 He will
say, 'I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood
since my youth.'"
Such passages are the basis for the view that new revelation no longer
occurs. God continues to give new insights into understanding and applying
the Bible, but does not supplement or supplant it.
Many others maintain that new revelations continue; often this is
associated with a belief in the permanent continuation of all of the gifts
of the Spirit mentioned in the Bible. However, most cults claim to have
new revelation as well. The question then becomes how to tell what is
legitimate. The "prophecy has ceased" view identifies all claimed
revelations (distinguished from insights) subsequent to the NT as
incorrect.
Dr. David Campbell
Old Seashells
University of Alabama
Biodiversity & Systematics
Dept. Biological Sciences
Box 870345
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0345 USA
bivalve@mail.davidson.alumlink.com
That is Uncle Joe, taken in the masonic regalia of a Grand Exalted
Periwinkle of the Mystic Order of Whelks-P.G. Wodehouse, Romance at
Droitgate Spa
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