From: Vernon Jenkins (vernon.jenkins@virgin.net)
Date: Thu Nov 28 2002 - 17:07:48 EST
Glenn, I think you must agree that the process I've described is really
'bottomless' in respect of minimising the probability figure. What if,
instead of just 10, we settled for a million consecutive primes over a wider
range? Surely, at some point in the scale of possibilities you would say
'enough is enough; this has to be evidence of design'!
You seek to draw a comparison of what I am describing with the probability
of being dealt a particular hand in a game of cards. But this hardly a fair
analogy. Surely, in respect of our hypothetical alien mastermind who has
devised a signal that widely proclaims his civilisation's exceptional
abilities, we infer that he has first looked for some suitable combination
of universal absolutes of low probability in order to capture the attention
of an intelligent receptor. He reasons that an orchestrated event of
exceedingly low probability will achieve this intial objective. [Let us
acknowledge at this point that in addition to the primes he has a wide
canvas of
possibilities at his disposal: perfect numbers, figurate numbers (37 and 91
being unique in possessing 3 symmetrical forms) and so on.] This
initial demonstration of intelligence is a perfect example of _specified
complexity_ . Unlike the hand of cards we infer it has
been designed with a specific end in view, viz that of advertising one's
presence and abilities as a cosmic player.
Vernon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Morton" <glenn.morton@btinternet.com>
To: "vernon jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Aliens (was:RE: Dembski and Caesar cyphers)
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: vernon jenkins [mailto:vernon.jenkins@virgin.net]
> >Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:53 PM
>
> >Glenn, I suggest that the receipt of a repeated sequence of just 10 prime
> >numbers within the range 900,000 - 1,100,000 would be interpreted by
SETI
> >as proof positive that an alien intelligence had been detected.
>
> I will count it proof when we have communicated. AFterall, the original
> discovery of the pulsar was considered as a possible case of alien
> intelligence.
>
> >
> >(And with some justification, for the probability of this event happening
> >naturally is of the order of 3x10^-12).*
>
> I absolutely agree with you that such a message will get our attention.
But
> low probability is not at all an indication of intentional design.
Consider
> the probability of any given hand in a card game.
>
> >> I would say that finding mathematical sequences in the electromagnetic
> >> spectrum coming from a distant star would get our attention.
> >But the only
> >> way to be sure it is designed intelligently is to communicate with it.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >But wouldn't you agree that the foregoing example of an valid
'intelligence
> >test' is a necessary preliminary to establishing meaningful
> >communication in
> >the longer term?
>
> There are mathematical signals in the electromagnetic spectrums from stars
> today which we don't think are signs of ET. We find perfect mathematical
> Fraunhofer lines in the spectra which are predicted by physical theory. We
> could see patterns of illumination loss as things go into a blackhole.
> Before we claim intelligence we have to rule out natural causes.
>
>
> For while the information conveyed by the sequence of
> >primes would mean little in itself it would surely prompt the receptor to
> >look more closely at any other signals emanating from the same source -
> >surely the only logical way forward.
>
> Absolutely agree. But it doesn't prove design, only gets our interest.
>
> glenn
>
> see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
> for lots of creation/evolution information
> anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
> personal stories of struggle
>
> >
> >
> >
> >*approximately 1 in 14 of the numbers in this range will be prime
> >
> >
> >>
> >> glenn
> >>
> >> see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
> >> for lots of creation/evolution information
> >> anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
> >> personal stories of struggle
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Nov 29 2002 - 13:10:29 EST