RE: Design detection and minimum description length

From: Glenn Morton (glenn.morton@btinternet.com)
Date: Tue Nov 26 2002 - 15:14:54 EST

  • Next message: Walter Hicks: "Re: oil"

    Blake wrote

    >The above quoted text was my point as well. I think,
    >from what I understand, Dembski has a long way to go
    >to make a convincing case for his method, but not for
    >the reason you offered, Glenn.
    >
    Commending what Iain had said:

    >--- Iain Strachan <iain.strachan@eudoramail.com>
    >wrote:
    >(SNIP)
    >> I agree that it is not merely improbability that
    >> indicates design;
    >> that specification and complexity are both required.

    Blake, not that you would dare give me any credit I would like to note for
    the record that on Nov 24 I wrote:

    >Contrary to what most people seem to draw from Dembski, it isn't the
    probability criterion which detects design. It is the >side information.

    Which is essentially what Iain wrote

    On Nov 23, I wrote:
    >Thus a sequence of meaningless alphabetic gobbledygook 107 characters long
    has a 1 out of 10^-151 chance of occurring. It
    >is an exceedingly low probability. Indeed the last sentence has 130
    characters (excluding spaces). That is an extremely low
    >probability event. Dembski would say it is specified because it has
    meaning. But an equally long sequence of random
    >characters, he would say is not specified. Your definition above totally
    forgets the specified part of Dembski's method.

    Which is essentially what Iain wrote. I am, however, glad that you finally
    see that Dembski's method has severe problems, regardless of how you came to
    that conclusion.

    glenn

    see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    for lots of creation/evolution information
    anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    personal stories of struggle

    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Dr. Blake Nelson [mailto:bnelson301@yahoo.com]
    >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:54 AM
    >To: Iain Strachan; asa@calvin.edu; Glenn Morton
    >Subject: RE: Design detection and minimum description length
    >
    >

    >> But I don't
    >> think that is the bit of the methodology that you
    >> were criticizing.
    >> As I understand it, you are criticizing Dembski for
    >> being unable to
    >> detect design when it is there, as in the case of a
    >> Vignere
    >> cipher,with the length of the key equal to the
    >> length of the text.
    >> You further imply that Dembski will say that such a
    >> text is
    >> "undesigned". I am saying that the answer would be
    >> that we simply
    >> don't have enough data in this case to make a design
    >> inference, and I
    >> really can't see what's wrong with that. What is at
    >> issue is whether
    >> you can positively say something is obviously
    >> designed, not whether
    >> you can always detect it.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >__________________________________________________
    >Do you Yahoo!?
    >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
    >http://mailplus.yahoo.com



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Wed Nov 27 2002 - 20:45:55 EST