Re: Dembski and Caesar Ciphers

From: Glenn Morton (glenn.morton@btinternet.com)
Date: Sun Nov 24 2002 - 05:43:09 EST

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    Josh asked me to lay out my objections to each of the four cases in
    Dembski's method.

    Four cases

    1. method fails to detect design in an undesigned sequence.

    This would be a correct answer but because of the Vigenere cipher, it can
    never be certain of being correct.

    2. method detects design in an undesigned sequence

    Given the way that Dembski does his stuff, he needs 'side knowledge' to
    detect design. This could be a low probability case where a random sequence
    generator generated a meaningful sentence. If it is a random-looking
    sequence, then I fail to see how this case can occur. Dembski always uses
    examples of semantically meaningful sequences for his design.

    3. method fails to detect design in a designed sequence

    This is the case of the Vigenere cipher. Without the side knowledge of the
    keyword, he can't detect design. But he must be told that it is there, and
    that means he didn't use an independent, objective mathematical methodology
    to detect design, he used the fact that someone told him there was a key.
    What if the guy lies? Once Dembski is given a keyword, he can't detect a
    true keyword from one which was made up by the likes of me.

    4. Method detects design in a designed sequence

    This can only happen when it is a readable sentence. Indeed all of Dembski's
    examples are of readable sentences. This then is another case of being told
    it is designed. His teachers told him that certain letters in certain
    arrangements mean certain things. His side knowledge is his reading ability.
    Once again, he didn't use a mathematical method to detect design. He speaks
    of using a 10^-150 as a probability bound, but it never plays a role.
    Dembski writes:

    ì Thus for the tractability condition to be satisfied, side information must
    provide the resources necessary for constructing the pattern in question.
    All of this admits a precise complexity-theoretic formulation and makes
    definite what I called the ability to construct a pattern on the basis of
    side information?î William Dembski, Intelligent Design, (Downers Grove,
    Illinois, 1999), p. 139

    Contrary to what most people seem to draw from Dembski, it isn't the
    probability criterion which detects design. It is the side information. That
    means that Dembski has to be told in every instance that the object is
    designed. Random sequences have the very same low probability yet they are
    claimed not to be designed. The only thing that yields a claim of design is
    knowledge of the side knowledge. After all, the probability of

    ssiwhwkaidsddhastekbaaoiryeaslhe9semsoiuesawqqyweksazoiuuytjfljgjhouooiurweh
    uiarnaouiareriuyoiuoiwe

    is the same as

    ithinkdembskihasnocasetomakeinregardstodesignbecauseheneverusesobjectivetech
    niquestodetectthedesign

    Both have the very same low probabiltiy of existing. One will be considered
    to be designed because he can read it not because of its probability of
    occurrence.

    Here are the passages I am using in support of my view of Dembski's method:

    With a binary set of prime numbers, he says:

    ìThus to eliminate chance we needed to employ additional side information,
    which in this case consisted of our knowledge of binary arithmetic. This
    side information detached the patter D from the event E and thereby rendered
    D a specification.î William Dembski, Intelligent Design, (Downers Grove,
    Illinois, 1999), p. 138

    This shows the subjectivity of Dembski's method. A person who knows nothing
    about binary math can't detect the pattern. That means that this method is
    highly dependent upon the individual's knowledge base. This is no different
    in principle than someone claining to see the activities of banshee's (bean
    sidhe in Gaelic; literally mountain spirit) in the world. His 'side
    information' allows him to see the pattern of their behavior (howling sounds
    in the Scottish glens when a family member was going to die). He knows the
    death is designed because of his 'side info'. Now my personal side
    information doesn't allow for that sort of thing because one hears eerie
    howls everytime the wind here gets over 50 mph (which is often). 1000 years
    ago, in the highlands in the winter, when the gales came, it was highly
    probable that you would hear the bean sidhe's and someone would die. But
    this illustrates that side informtion is highly subjective and thus Dembski
    doesn't have a scientific methodology.

    ìBecause the side information is conditionally and therefore epistemically
    independent of the event, any pattern constructed from this side information
    is obtained without recourse to the event. In this way any pattern that is
    constructed from such side information avoids the charge of being ad hoc.
    These then are the detachable patterns. These are the specifications.î
    William Dembski, Intelligent Design, (Downers Grove, Illinois, 1999), p. 139

    Yes, knowledge of bean sidhe behavior is definitely epistemologically
    independent of the event.

    glenn

    see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    for lots of creation/evolution information
    anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    personal stories of struggle



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