RE: Dembski and Caesar cyphers

From: Josh Bembenek (jbembe@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Nov 22 2002 - 11:54:44 EST

  • Next message: george murphy: "Re: Agnosticism: Sondra Brasile's comments"

    Glen et al.-
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    "I am glad you agree with my criticism of Dembski's methodology. If
    Dembski's method can't tell determine that some sequence is not designed,
    then all sequences have the possibility of being designed. That means that
    he can't discriminate between designed and non-designed sequences, which is
    my point entirely. His method can't and doesn't work. But it has fooled
    and misled a bunch of people into believing that Dembski has a method of
    detecting God's design in the world. Put simply, he hasn't. Your last
    sentence encapsulates my entire criticism."

    -At best you've delineated a situation where the filter will give a false
    negative, or a non-design reference to something designed. I think atheists
    and critics should be and are much more worried about false positives.
    Along these lines anything the filter calls "designed" should be seen as
    non-design structures for some reason. Who cares if the filter can't pick
    up some cryptic sequence or not? You are arguing that the filter cannot
    discriminate between designed and non-designed sequences among the class of
    sequences that the filter will give a non-design inference for. Fine, some
    designed structures will not be recognized. However, what we really care
    about is what to make of the sequences that are given a positive design
    inference. The question is whether we can positively assert that something
    like the flagellum bears the features of design. For the flagellum, we know
    the code, the translation and the final product, we don't need to discuss
    cryptic messages. If the flagellum is not designed, the only options for
    the filter is for it to actually give indications of non-design or give a
    false positive. Conversely a flagellum is designed, the filter can only
    readout design or give a false negative. False negatives are irrelevant to
    critics, because they don't want to see biological design and falsely
    calling a design structure not designed suits them well. Dembski, however,
    is worried about false negatives because he is trying to detect design in
    nature. Only for those objects for which design is detected by the filter
    should we be interested in further exploring whether or not they are really
    designed. As for true or false negatives, those issues can be explored
    later, but the fact that you have identified what you believe to be a false
    negative doesn't invalidate the approach.

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