conservation of information

From: Glenn Morton (glenn.morton@btinternet.com)
Date: Tue Nov 19 2002 - 17:18:02 EST

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    Another very silly idea which Dembski propounds in his book Intelligent
    Design is the hopelessly flawed, easily falsified concept that information
    is conserved. Dembski writes:

            ìSince natural causes are precisely those characterized by
    chance, law or a
    combination of the two, the broad conclusion of the last section may be
    restated as follows: Natural causes are incapable of generating CSI. I call
    this result the law of conservation of information, or LCI for short. The
    phrase ìlaw of conservation of informationí is not new. In The Limits of
    Science Peter Medawar used it to describe the weaker claim that
    deterministic laws cannot produce novel information.î William A. Dembski,
    Intelligent Design, (Downers Grove: Intervarsity Press, 2001), p.170

    This is a category mistake. The inability of Natural causes to generate CSI
    doesnít mean that information is conserved. Information might be destroyed.
    The two categories are very, very different. Dembski then uses this idea to
    argue against evolution. Dembski writes:

    "Given the law of conservation of information, it follows that inheritance
    with modification by itself is incapable of explaining the increased
    complexity of CSI that organisms have exhibited in the course of natural
    history. Inheritance with modification needs therefore to be supplemented.
            ìThe most obvious candidate here is, of course, selection. Selection
    presupposes inheritance with modification, but instead of merely shifting
    around already existing information, selection also introduces new
    information. By seizing on advantageous modifications, selection is able to
    introduce new information into a population. The majority view in
    biologyóknown as the neo-Darwinian synthesisóis that selection and
    inheritance with modification together are adequate to account for all the
    CSI inherent in organisms. As a parsimonious account of the origin and
    development of life, this view has much to commend it. Nonetheless this view
    places undue restrictions on the flow of biological information,
    restrictions that biological systems routinely violate.î William A. Dembski,
    Intelligent Design, (Downers Grove: Intervarsity Press, 2001), p. 177

    He then goes on to claim that irreducible complexity can't arise by chance
    and thus selection doesn't create new information.

    Dembski also erroneously writes:

            ìThe first corollary can be understood in terms of data storage and
    retrieval. Data constitute a form of CSI. Ideally data would stay unaltered
    over time. Nonetheless, entropy being the corrupting force that it is, data
    tend to degrade and need constantly to be restored. Over time magnetic tapes
    deteriorate, pages yellow, print fades and books disintegrate. Information
    by be eternal, but the physical media that house information are subject to
    natural causes and are thoroughly ephemeral. The first corollary
    acknowledges this fact.î William A. Dembski, Intelligent Design, (Downers
    Grove: Intervarsity Press, 2001), p. 170

    Information is simply not eternal. Period. I can think of numerous cases
    where information is lost. Consider the Alexandrian library. This ancient
    library had lots of information (defined by Shannon or colloquially). I
    burned down around 600 A.D. It went up in smoke. If information is
    conserved, where the millions of bits of info housed in the Alexandrian
    Library go when it burned? We canít find that info in the sky or in the
    smoke. The information was not preserved, it is not eternal and it was NOT,
    repeat NOT conserved.

    Dembski claims that a bacterial flagellum exceeds 500 bits of information.
    Great. Lets assume that based on this, I have around 3000 bits of
    information to define me and my body. Assume when I die, that the ID
    proponents are really sick of me. THey take my body and grind it to powder.
    Now, I exist as a structureless powder in the bottom of a mortar. Where
    exactly is the 3000 bits of information which made me? Where did it go. How
    was it conserved? What you have is a structureless pile of white powder
    which will not speak to you nor argue incessantly as I do. What happens to
    the information in a cremated body. What receptical preserves this 'eternal'
    information? Dembski's idea of information conservation is so silly as to
    be hardly worth discussing, except that people actually take this stuff
    seriously.

    What Dembski misses in the last quoted paragraph is that information is not
    separable from the physical media. information is a physical thing.
    Mathematics can only be done by manipulating physical objects. Information
    isn't out there on the ether waiting to be captured or hiding when the
    phsyical object decays.

    glenn

    see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    for lots of creation/evolution information
    anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    personal stories of struggle



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