Re: Dembski and Caesar cyphers

From: Lawrence Johnston (johnston@uidaho.edu)
Date: Sun Nov 17 2002 - 19:17:20 EST

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    Glenn - Bless you, you are always willing to do some hard work to
    make a point. I think it helps in the case of "methinksitislike
    aweasel" that it is a recognizable quotation from Shakespeare.
    See if your random number generator can come up with the likes of
    "blessedarethepoorinspirit" or "inthebeginningwastheword" or
    "tobeornottobethatisthequestion". I'm sure you could, given enuf
    time.

    I think a limiting point is that the Universe is only 14 billion
    years old, and contains only 10 to the 80th power particles, so
    that there is only a finite number of trials that can be made to
    ACCIDENTALLY produce the thousands of strategic carbon-based
    protein types all in one place and appropriately organized that
    would be required to produce the first minimally living,
    reproducing cell. I don't think it was an accident.

    Larry Johnston

    =====================================================
    Lawrence H. Johnston home: 917 E. 8th st.
    professor of physics, emeritus Moscow, Id 83843
    University of Idaho (208) 882-2765
    Fellow of the American Physical Society
    http://www.uidaho.edu/~johnston/homepage.html =======

            Glenn Morton wrote Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:34:51 -
    0000

    >
    > I am finally reading Dembski's Intelligent Design. A certain claim caught my
    > attention.
    >
    > ÏNow a little reflection makes clear that a pattern need not
    > be given prior
    > to an event to eliminate chance and implicate design. Consider the following
    > cipher text:
    >
    > nfuijolt ju jt mjlf b xfbtfm
    > Initially this looks like a random sequence of letters and spacesÛinitially
    > you lack any pattern for rejecting chance and inferring design.
    > ÏBut suppose next that someone comes along and tells you to treat this
    > sequence as a Caesar cipher, in which each letter has shifted one notch down
    > the alphabet. The deciphered sequence then reads,
    >
    > methinks it is like a weasel
    >
    > Even though the pattern (in this case, the decrypted text) is given after
    > the fact, it still is the right sort of pattern for eliminating chance and
    > inferring design. In contrast to statistics, which always identifies its
    > patterns before an experiment is performed, cryptanalysis must discover its
    > patterns after the fact. In both instances, however, the patterns are
    > suitable for inferring design.Ó William Dembski, Intelligent Design,
    > (Downers Grove, Illinois, 1999), p. 132
    >
    > I decided to test this concept. I had a random number generator create
    > random letter sequences and then I looked for Caesar cyphers to turn them
    > into something meaningful. Using this criterion, my computer is an
    > intelligent creature who is trying to communicate with me by DESIGN.
    >
    > xeckqbfumq
    > wasitabrat (was it a brat)
    >
    > gpizuwbgtu
    > ontheslope (on the slope)
    >
    > wxbukwoors
    > amadhatter (a mad hatter)
    >
    > ijfqbjwdih
    > isthisapig (is this a pig)
    >
    > jyybxozrbd
    > beeverfive (be ever five--something said of a dead five year old)
    >
    > yzusizpzqb
    > isthisasin (is this a sin)
    >
    > It is not that hard to determine a caesar cypher to turn a randomly
    > generated sequence into a meaningful, short message. I won't claim that all
    > long sequences can be so treated but it is interesting that random sequences
    > can be given meaning where none was intended. Thus, the question is how do
    > we determine design in the face of this phenomenon?
    >
    > glenn
    >
    > see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    > for lots of creation/evolution information
    > anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    > personal stories of struggle
    >



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