RE: Dembski and Caesar cyphers

From: Glenn Morton (glenn.morton@btinternet.com)
Date: Mon Nov 18 2002 - 01:23:29 EST

  • Next message: allenroy: "Re: Dembski and Caesar cyphers"

    Iain, you must realize, that Dembski's argument absolutely fails because
    Caesar cyphers are not the only encoding routines available. What I
    presented was merely an illustration of the ease with which one can find a
    code which will turn any random sequence into a 'designed' sequence. Indeed,
    the best available cypher code involves the use of a keyword which is
    precisely as long as the code. This gives very little ability to decipher
    the text. Such keywords perform a modulo arithmetic between two
    corresponding letters (one from the text and one from the code). The output
    is another letter but which appears meaningless. Now, given any random
    text, one can design a keyword code which will transform it into a
    meaningful sentence or paragraph. So, if one has the random sequence:
    frinmrcsxmktybevvrmhutevmuk

    And apply a Vigenere cypher to it of:

    yymeqnckxkynlhpvypryifrdsyb

    It turns that sequence into the first line of a limerick!

    therewasayoungladyfromniger

    Or take a really long sequence:
    jwfldusfglttbncxpnzoqvvbavd
    fwjlqrfghanhvmfljmfrqqanm
    ljujouoyeacanagkxhkbw
    nuojpewzlmklj
    apkspzavxgrmctobrbcnfedttxbty

    Using the keyword:

    cdjchqsxgjhnotoxcjgcivdjgjg
    rqbejyntriglsojpmusxbooqp
    tobntcbbwtjagtnspabfa
    pibcxrqddfymn
    wwofigembyeaqgsbspwgnrwaxnvtb

    Becomes a famous limerick on quantum:

    therewasayoungmanwhosaidgod
    mustthinkitexceedinglyodd
    ifhefindsthatthistree
    continuestobe
    whentheresnooneaboutinthequad

    For the spatiall challenged:

    there was a young man who said god
    must think it exceedingly odd
    if he finds that this tree
    continues to be
    when theres no one about in the quad

    Every single sequence has the capacity to be a designed spy code.

    My point is this. Dembski claims that if one can provide a spy code which
    turns a random sequence into a meaningful sequence, then what his method
    says isn't designed suddenly becomes designed. Since I have shown that
    every single random sequence can be turned into a meaningful sentence, it
    means that Dembski's method can't distinguish designed sequences from
    non-designed.

    I don't care how long you make the random sequence, I can turn it into a
    meaningful sentence of that length with great ease. Thus, Dembski's claim to
    be able to detect design is meaningless. Since he can't rule out that any
    given random sequence isn't a designed sequence because he must always worry
    about a Vignere keyword which is capable of turning his random, non-designed
    sequence into a designed one. Thus, Dembski's approach only allows us to
    recognize design in things we KNOW a priori are designed. For things like
    life, Dembski is assuming

    glenn

    see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    for lots of creation/evolution information
    anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    personal stories of struggle



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