Hello Mike,
In response to my suggestion that the ark was designed specifically
to ensure the
survival of Noah, his immediate family, and a representative
selection of animals,
you wrote:
That is only your understanding. The text of Genesis, including the verses
you cite, do not actually say what you imply that they say. In Gen. 6:18 God
tells Noah that He will establish a covenant with him and that he and his
family are to enter the ark. God does not say that no one else is allowed to
also enter the ark. Gen. 6:19,20 does not say that all the remaining space on
the ark was to be filled by animals. These verses only say that animals were
to be taken on the ark.
We read in Heb.11:7, "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as
yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by which he
condemned the ' kosmos' ( = ' world', not ' land' ), and became heir of the
righteousness which is by faith." God clearly knew that no other
person on earth
possessed this righteousness - nor was ever likely to - for "...every
imagination
of the thoughts of (their) hearts was only evil continually." (Gen.6:5).
You then continue:
Peter called Noah "a preacher of righteousness." (2 Pet. 2:5) What did he
mean by that? There is only one thing he could have meant. For there has
always been only one basic message of "righteousness" which God's servants
have preached. That message is "Repent and be saved." Jonah preached it.
God's many prophets sent to Israel and Judah preached it. John the baptist
preached it. Jesus preached it. And Peter himself preached it. Peter strongly
urged everyone he preached to to "Repent." He told them to do so in order to
"Save yourself from this corrupt generation." (Acts 2:38-40) According to
you, Peter was telling us that Noah was an entirely different kind of
"preacher of righteousness," one quite different from himself and from every
other "preacher of righteousness" whom God had ever commissioned, one who did
not urge people to repent and one who offered those he preached to no way to
save themselves from their corrupt generation. If that is what you are saying
I can only say that I believe you are badly mistaken. To preach righteousness
is to urge people to begin living their lives in a righteous manner, with the
expectation of receiving blessings by God as a result. To be "a preacher of
righteousness" has always meant just that and it has never meant anything
else.
But I wasn't aware that my earlier statement had challenged Noah's
standing as 'a
preacher of righteousness' in that sense. The message of the Flood narrative
appears to be that his words fell on stony ground. However, I'm glad
you've drawn
attention to some of the Apostle Peter's words. A fuller excerpt from
his second
epistle runs as follows: "And spared not the old ' kosmos' ( = ' world', not '
land' ) but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of
righteousness, bringing in
the flood upon the world of the ungodly;..." (2Pet.2:4,5). Observe
that Peter had
for 3 years been a close companion of Jesus; his words therefore bear
the stamp of
authority. It was the _world_ that was flooded, not the _land_ of Noah.
I had then said, "What you appear to miss in Gen.6:17 is that the One
who speaks
his intention knew Earth to be a sphere and the ' heavens' to extend
beyond what
Noah sees above his head.", and you responded:
Apparently, God was speaking to Noah from Noah's perspective, not from His
own perspective.
But why should God pander to Noah's supposedly limited capabilities
of cognition
rather than speaking the truth? He had already told Noah what His objective was
(Gen.6:7) and how He proposed to achieve it (Gen.6:17). A consideration of the
data provided in Gen.4 and 5 suggests that the Antediluvian
population in Noah's
day numbered several billions. From what we know of the colonisation of the
Americas by settlers travelling by horse and covered wagon these
would have been
spread globally by the time of the Flood - there being 1656 years
available. Noah
must have been aware that the world he knew was populated in every
part and would
surely have well understood what God had in mind.
Finally, in response to my, "Whether or not Noah understood what the
Lord really
had in mind is beside the point. Clearly, (in respect of earth being
a sphere) we
today are in a more privileged position than he.", you wrote:
The only way we can know for sure "what the Lord had in mind" is to see what
the Lord did. The evidence shows that the Lord did not bring a global flood.
So the Lord could not have had a global flood in mind.
Mike, I believe your views are largely conditioned by your desire to
bolster the
standing of the Darwinian hypothesis. My approach on the other hand
is to accept
the Bible as a body of revealed truth, graciously provided by our Creator, in
order that ' intellectual cripples' like ourselves may know the
fundamental truths
concerning our earthly existence - truths that can come to us by no
other way. As
' lovers of truth', I believe all Christians have a duty to examine
carefully all
claims such as you are making (viz, that the Flood was of limited extent - both
geographically and anthropologically) whose effect is to undermine
the authority
of God's Word. In this regard, I have already cited Eph.6:10-17. Here is sound
advice. But how many believers take the 'spiritual warfare' seriously?
Sincerely, in His Name,
Vernon
MikeSatterlee@cs.com wrote:
> Hello Vernon,
>
> You wrote: the ark was never intended to house more than 8 people (Gen.6:18);
> all the
> remaining accomodation was for the animals (Gen.6:19,20)! Have you no better
> explanation to suggest?
>
> That is only your understanding. The text of Genesis, including the verses
> you cite, do not actually say what you imply that they say. In Gen. 6:18 God
> tells Noah that He will establish a covenant with him and that he and his
> family are to enter the ark. God does not say that no one else is allowed to
> also enter the ark. Gen. 6:19,20 does not say that all the remaining space on
> the ark was to be filled by animals. These verses only say that animals were
> to be taken on the ark.
>
> Peter called Noah "a preacher of righteousness." (2 Pet. 2:5) What did he
> mean by that? There is only one thing he could have meant. For there has
> always been only one basic message of "righteousness" which God's servants
> have preached. That message is "Repent and be saved." Jonah preached it.
> God's many prophets sent to Israel and Judah preached it. John the baptist
> preached it. Jesus preached it. And Peter himself preached it. Peter strongly
> urged everyone he preached to to "Repent." He told them to do so in order to
> "Save yourself from this corrupt generation." (Acts 2:38-40) According to
> you, Peter was telling us that Noah was an entirely different kind of
> "preacher of righteousness," one quite different from himself and from every
> other "preacher of righteousness" whom God had ever commissioned, one who did
> not urge people to repent and one who offered those he preached to no way to
> save themselves from their corrupt generation. If that is what you are saying
> I can only say that I believe you are badly mistaken. To preach righteousness
> is to urge people to begin living their lives in a righteous manner, with the
> expectation of receiving blessings by God as a result. To be "a preacher of
> righteousness" has always meant just that and it has never meant anything
> else.
>
> You wrote: What you appear to miss in Gen.6:17 is that the One who speaks his
> intention knew Earth to be a sphere and the "heavens" to extend beyond what
> Noah sees above his head.
>
> Apparently, God was speaking to Noah from Noah's perspective, not from His
> own perspective.
>
> You wrote: Whether or not Noah understood what the Lord really had in mind is
> beside the point. Clearly, we today are in a more privileged
>position than he.
>
> The only way we can know for sure "what the Lord had in mind" is to see what
> the Lord did. The evidence shows that the Lord did not bring a global flood.
> So the Lord could not have had a global flood in mind.
>
> Your brother in Christ,
>
> Mike
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