Hi Mike,
You wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: MikeSatterlee@cs.com [mailto:MikeSatterlee@cs.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 7:32 PM
>Hello Glenn,
>
>I was quoting from a private E mail sent to me by a respected
>participant of
>this list. Since his E mail to me was off the list I did not
>mention his name
>since he may not have wanted his comments to be on the record.
>That being the
>case, maybe I should not have quoted his comments, even as an "unnamed
>source."
Fair enough reason not to name the person, and probably, he isn't going to
like my next question. I would ask this person to come out publically and
give an example of where a large impact has cause megascale changes in
topography outside of the immediate blast zone and apart from the multi-ring
phenomenon, which doesn't apply to your 2 mile wide depression.
>
>My point in doing so was simply to prove that your assertion that Noah's
>flood could not possibly have taken place in Mesopotamia, because
>the lay of
>the land and the laws of physics would not have permitted such a flood to
>have occurred there, is in error. I believe I have shown that, if the
>conditions and events which I described and for which now exists a small
>amount of evidence (the description of the flood's cause in the
>epic and the
>existence of what some believe is a large meteor crater in southern Iraq)
>actually did exist in Mesopotamia at the time of Noah's flood, then it is
>physically possible that Noah's flood was a Mesopotamian flood.
Unless and until someone can document how the mantle can flow at such rapid
speeds, you haven't proven a thing. The mantle directly or indirectly
controls topography in the situation you are speaking of. In areas of higher
topography, such as the Turkish Mountains at the northern end of the Iraqi
plain, the moho must be thicker. This is due to the laws of buoyancy. With
vertical exaggeration it will look like:
**
***
****** V
**********earth's surface
---------earth's moho
------
--- viscosity 10^22 poise
--Now, you have a small meteor cause a 2 mile wide crater where the V is, in your case southern Iraq. To tilt the land you must have that alter the shape of the moho and there isn't enough energy to do it. You would have to have that small event remold the moho, pushing it UP against the depressing force of the meteor itself. It would look like:
V ** ******earth's surface *** **** ****** ----- earth's moho ....... ----. . ........... ------ --- viscosity 10^22 poise --
Two physically silly things are being advocated here. First, there is a space problem. There is more mantle material in the lower model than there was in the upper, original cross-section. The extra space is outlined in dots. What fills this volume? Can't be mantle material because that is a limited in quantity to the amount there is. Secondly, as I said, meteor impacts don't lift the earth's surface up. Even in the largest impacts, the central uplift zone doesn't get as high as the old land surface. > > You wrote: You have jumped from a circular depression, to this is >a meteor >crater, to this is one of many meteors which hit the world at that time >without a single shred of evidence that it is a meteor impact in the first >place. > >I am not the one who has suggested that this "circular depression" >appears to >be a meteor crater. Credible scientists have done so.
They have suggested it only. They haven't proven anything, and they haven't shown the single most conclusive piece of evidence for impact. They haven't shown any shock metamorphism exists in the rocks beneath this circle. You are leaping from speculation to speculation to build your case. As I said, belief overcomes all evidence.
> >You wrote: Once your Iraqi depression is shown to be an impact >crater rather >than a salt collapse structure, or a karst sink hole, then before you can >claim many meteors hit the earth, you need to show that there are >many other >craters of the same time. > >If several meteors struck this area of the earth at about the same time >causing Noah's flood, as the epic of Gilgamesh suggests, they may not have >all struck land. Some may have struck the sea and the sea floor, >leaving no >craters which are now readily discernible.
This is scientifically naive. Evidence for craters is often seen under the oceans. We see them on 3d seismic and they show up in the gravitational field. I took a picture of a poster at the 2001 SEG convention which showed the gravitational field over the Rocknaby crater, which is offshore Sweden. It is about 4 km in diameter. You can see it at:
http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/RocknebySwedenimpact-grav.jpg
Chicxulub was an offshore impact at the time of the impact yet we find it. For other offshore meteor and near shore impacts see Arthur J. Mory et al, ìWoodleigh, Carnarvon Basin, Western Australia: a New 120 Km Diameter Impact Structure,î Earth and Planetary Science Letters 177(2000):119-128, p. 127; C. Wylie Poag, ìThe Chesapeake Bay Bolide Impact: A Convulsive Event in Atlantic Coastal Plain Evolution,î Sedimentary Geology 180(1997):45-90
> >You wrote: you need documentation, not speculation, which is all you have >right now. > >It sounds to me like you are now admitting that finding evidence >that Noah's >flood took place in Mesopotamia is not beyond the realm of possibility.
How in the world can you illogically draw this conclusion from the fact that I have just said all you have is speculation? The logic here is attrocious. I say you have no evidence and you say I am saying it isn't beyond the realm of possiblility. Let me spell it out for you. What you are suggesting is beyond the realm of known physical laws--especially the part about a meteor impact in the southern part of the Iraqi plain lifting the topography in that region. And I will take on your anonymous person if he/she decides to come public with their suggestion that you might have a valid theory--you don't. It is as bad as anything I have seen in my years of dealing with irrational apologetics.
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm for lots of creation/evolution information anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\ personal stories of struggle
>Mike
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