Re: Noahic Covenant

From: Vernon Jenkins (vernon.jenkins@virgin.net)
Date: Sun Jun 23 2002 - 16:16:33 EDT

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    Hi Mike,

    While I am well aware that the Hebrew word "erets" is more often translated
    "land" than "earth" (meaning "the planet"), I observe that it is the
    latter that
    is clearly meant in Gen.1:1, and in many of the subsequent references in the
    Creation narrative. You write: "The facts of scripture and science combine to
    clearly show that Noah's flood could not have been global,...". I
    suggest, on the
    other hand, that a straight reading of the Flood narrative, the ensuing Noahic
    covenant, and the relevant NT passages, demand that this must have been a
    _global_ event. I further suggest that to be "assured" by scientists
    that it must
    have been _local_ is to confuse the _interpretation_ of certain
    observations with
    _fact_. You choose to disbelieve the account offered by the only
    eyewitnesses to
    this cataclysm and, instead, place your faith in forensic procedures
    conducted by
    people who - as evolutionists - already know what the outcome has to be.

    As I have written elsewhere, the logical absurdity of God requiring
    Noah to build
    a large sea-going vessel to escape the ravages of a _local flood_
    (which was yet
    some 100 years away) is hardly a solid foundation on which to build a
    convincing
    argument. In my view, this alone should deter the Christian (by definition, a
    lover of truth) from following such a line of reasoning.
    Nevertheless, for many,
    it is clear that the ambiguity associated with the meaning of "erets" is a
    temptation too hard to resist. However, other matters of relevance
    appear to have
    been overlooked, viz:

        * "And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth to
          destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and
          everything that is in the earth shall die." (Gen.6:17). Now "shemayim" has
          the unambiguous meaning "heaven" or "sky". How, therefore, can "...destroy
          all flesh from under heaven..." mean anything less than a
    globally universal
          operation?
        * Rainbows are seen everywhere - not just in Mesopotamia. So it
    would appear,
          wouldn't you agree, that "earth" in the context of Gen.9:14 certainly has
          global connotations in respect of the covenant?
        * "And I will remember my covenant , which is between me and you (Noah) and
          every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a
          flood to destroy all flesh." (Gen.9:15). Observe here that there is no
          reference to "erets" - and thus no associated problem of
    interpretation. The
          argument therefore hinges now on what we are to understand by
    "all flesh". I
          suggest "kol" (meaning "all") is quite unambiguous - as is
    "basar" (meaning
          "flesh"). God's covenant is here clearly stated as being made between
          himself and all creatures then living - the rainbow (whenever,
    and wherever,
          it appeared) to remind him of this "everlasting covenant".
    (Gen.9:16). So, a
          typical question facing the _local flood_ theorist might be, "Does the
          occurrence of a rainbow in the North of Scotland remind God that
    he is never
          again to assault Mesopotamia with a major flood?" I think not; but what
          about you, Mike?

    Again, regarding the matter of scientists "assuring us" of this and that, I
    believe Christians - who should have some understanding of man's true
    nature and
    of the exclusiveness of the scientific enterprise - have the responsibility to
    question all pronouncements that undermine the Authority of God's Word. In view
    of the foregoing observations, I suggest the mabbul was undoubtedly _global_.
    With that understanding, Christian geologists and others should, I
    believe, begin
    an urgent reassessment and reinterpretation of the available data.

    Sincerely,

    Vernon

    MikeSatterlee@cs.com wrote:

    > Vernon,
    >
    > Your question was to Glen. But since it was also sent out to the whole list
    > I'll respond to it.
    >
    > You wrote: no doubt you will remember that a significant item in the list is
    > the guarantee that "neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters
    > of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."
    > (Gen.9:11). ... That all seems clear enough - but only if the Flood had been
    > _global_ - for manifestly, since Noah's day, there have been many _local_
    > floods - some of which have wiped out whole communities. May I ask how you as
    > a Christian and local flood theorist make sense of this matter.
    >
    > The Hebrew word which is translated as "earth" in Gen. 9:11 is much more
    > often translated in the Old Testament as "land," such as in "the land of
    > Shinar" and "the land of Canaan." Same word. Look it up.
    >
    > So, God was not promising Noah that He would never again allow a flood to
    > destroy any land area on Earth. He was telling Noah that He would never again
    > allow a flood to destroy the land Noah then called home. The land that was
    > then completely destroyed by the Genesis flood was the land of Noah, a land
    > which Bible historians refer to as "Mesopotamia," a land which is now located
    > in southern Iraq. Since the time of Noah's flood this land has never again
    > been completely destroyed by a flood. Though it has since that time
    > experienced some small amount of flooding when the Tigress and Euphrates
    > Rivers have overflowed their banks, no flood has since that time ever again
    > destroyed the area of land which Noah once called home.
    >
    > By the way, the flood of Noah's day could not have been either geographically
    > or anthropologically global. For scientists assure us that our earth has
    > never been completely covered with water at any time since land masses first
    > emerged from its once global sea many millions of years ago. And many
    > indisputable physical facts prove that our earth could certainly not have
    > been completely flooded with water at anytime within the last 50,000 years.
    > (Among them is a similar number of annually deposited layers of ice which
    > have been counted in Greenland and Antarctica. They show no disturbance by
    > any global flood during the time of their being laid down.)
    >
    > Bible chronology dates Noah's flood within the last 5,000 years. And the
    > historical setting described in Genesis tells us that the flood must have
    > occurred within the last 10,000 years. For Genesis tells us that at the time
    > of the flood people were herding animals, raising crops, forging metals and
    > building cities, things which science assures us did not take place on earth
    > any earlier than 10,000 years ago. Science also assures us that North America
    > has been continually inhabited for 15,000 years and Australia for 30,000
    > years.
    >
    > So when did Noah's "global" flood take place?
    >
    > The facts of scripture and science combine to clearly show that Noah's flood
    > could not have been global, it could not have killed all people on the earth
    > who were then outside the ark, and we cannot all be Noah's descendants. Thus
    > God's promise to Noah about never again allowing a flood to destroy the land
    > must have referred only to the land of Noah. God has kept this promise.
    >
    > Mike



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