Dog eat dog/WAS: My Daughter is a YEC

From: Wendee Holtcamp (wendee@greendzn.com)
Date: Sun Jun 09 2002 - 21:15:27 EDT

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    Vernon (and others interested in this thread)

    Am I correct that you say you find it opposite to God's character that He
    would bring about Creation through a "dog-eat-dog" process? Is that the
    primary basis of your argument against evolution? (trying to summarize what
    you've said).

    If so, I can understand the point. I think its a valid and interesting
    theological question or dilemma. I wonder, do you accept that this
    dog-eat-dog world does indeed exist out there? And if so (which it obviously
    does both for biota and humans), then do you attribute its existence to the
    Fall?

    If that is the case, then I indeed understand your opposition to the idea of
    evolution as the means of creation.

    I still, however, feel that we may have our personal wishes for how God is,
    or how God did or does things, but that won't necessarily change the way He
    did indeed do them. Just like the earth-centered universe idea going "out
    the window" sometimes the church (body of believers) just has to modify
    their understanding because of overwhelming evidence. (I understand that you
    currently do not accept this overwhelming evidence).

    Are there any theological/real-life issues you have with God that you
    question why God has to "be that way" or "do that"? I mean, the Holocaust,
    or that Jasper man dragging to death of that black man, or child abuse. What
    is the purpose of child abuse? How can God allow it to happen? I'm asking a
    rhetorical question. I don't expect an answer -- I am sure we can give lots
    of possible and reasonable explanations why bad things happen, or "have to"
    happen but that doesn't eliminate some people's overall questions about
    God's existence because of them.

    My main point with this is that just because evolution is personally
    distasteful to your understanding of a loving God, doesn't mean its not the
    way God chose to create. There are many things that God allows to happen
    that are distasteful, and don't appear to serve any grand purpose (though
    they may indeed in the end), but they unquestionably happen.

    Wendee
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
          Wendee Holtcamp -- wendee@greendzn.com
       Environmental Journalist ~~ www.greendzn.com
      Adjunct Instructor of Biology, Kingwood College
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    How do I explain the required chameleon-like behaviour of God's Son [and,
    ultimately, of God Himself - whose counsel is said to be immutable
    (Heb.6:17)]? As Creator, He opts for a long, loveless, process; and, as
    Redeemer, He becomes the epitome of Love!!
    If you argue this, then what about what has happened since? How do you deal
    with the continuing evils of our world. Animalks do eat other animals and we
    do also. If He does not stop these now, then why do you complain about the
    past?
    The 'Book of Nature' and 'Book of Life' (the Bible) have the same Author.
    Should they not harmonise with one another, therefore? Why, for example,
    does the first say landgoing creatures were created before birds, while the
    second says the opposite? And why, according to the first, is the Creation
    ongoing - the second having informed us that it was completed in 6 days?
    Again, why doesn't the second openly declare the Flood to be 'local', and
    refrain from using language like, "And behold, I, even I am bringing the
    flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath
    of life, from under heaven."? And what was the giving of the rainbow all
    about? Finally, why so much fuss regarding Cain's murder of his brother
    Abel? Under an evolutionary regime, such goings on would surely be
    commonplace in its later stages!
    I would offer several things:
    1.) It is men who have declared the Bible to be infallible. It never does
    that itself. If we consider that it was inspired -- but delivered to humans
    with all their limitations (as well as the limitations of language) ----
    there is most likely the possibility of some errors. Moreover, the
    contradictions of some texts make that very likely.
    2.) There is also the possible interpretation that some parts of the old
    testament are like "parables". I don't subscribe to that, but it is indeed a
    possibility.
    3.) The ancients considered the world to be pretty small. To them a local
    flood would be one that covered the entire world as they new it.
    4.) One only gets into trouble with the Bible by declaring it to be more
    than God intended it to be (IMHO).
    I realise these are awkward questions - but they need to be asked, and they
    need to be honestly addressed by all who take upon themselves the title
    'Christian evolutionist'. In addition to yourself, perhaps Wayne and
    Stephen - having recently contributed to this thread - would like to offer
    some answers.
    Excuse me for sticking my nose in.
    sincerely,

    Walt
    ===================================
    Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>

    In any consistent theory, there must
    exist true but not provable statements.
    (Godel's Theorem)
    You can only find the truth with logic
    If you have already found the truth
    without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
    ===================================



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