RE: Evolutionists' dilemma/WAS: My Daughter is a YEC

From: Stephen J. Krogh (panterragroup@mindspring.com)
Date: Sun Jun 09 2002 - 12:49:36 EDT

  • Next message: Glenn Morton: "Historical accuracy?"

      -----Original Message-----
      From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
    Behalf Of Vernon Jenkins
      Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 6:31 PM
      To: wendee@greendzn.com
      Cc: asa@calvin.edu
      Subject: Re: Evolutionists' dilemma/WAS: My Daughter is a YEC

      Hi Wendee,
      Thanks for your prompt response. I'm glad you think my questions worthy of
    an answer and look forward to further discussions with you in due course. In
    the meantime I'll just comment on some of the points you've raised.
      .
      One question -- are you interested in knowing the answers because you want
    to convince me that my position is invalid, or are you truly interested in
    knowing how I (or you or another Christian) can hold to an evolutionary
    creationists perspective? Because if you already have your mind made up then
    no argument, no matter how powerful or logical or rational or backed by
    evidence, will convince you.

      I pose these 'dilemmas' in order to demonstrate the widely held view,
    'creation by evolution', to be untenable.

      IOW, "a view I don't like, because it goes against my preconceived
    notion."

      Every Christian (by divine definition) is 'a lover of truth' (Jn.18:37)
    and is thus required to carefully scrutinise and weigh all 'doctrines of
    men' that come his/her way.

      Including YECism, "a doctrine of men."

      [The so-called 'proofs' of evolution that have, so far, been brought to my
    attention I find unconvincing and, in my view, incapable of overturning the
    'dilemmas'.]

      Of course you would find them unconvincing. I believe you would find them
    unconvincing even before you happened to see them. You have no intention of
    learning anything. You have made Wendee's point: "Because if you already
    have your mind made up then no argument, no matter how powerful or logical
    or rational or backed by evidence, will convince you."

      For the Christian it is mandatory also that he/she believes the teachings
    of Jesus. In his 'sermon on the mount', in particular, the Lord made
    reference to two matters which are apposite in this context. He said, (1) No
    man can serve two masters... (Mt.6:24) and, (2) ... by their fruits ye shall
    know them (Mt.7:15).

      It is clear to me that the evolutionary creationist is ignoring these
    nuggets of sound instruction. Regarding the first, the two masters are
    represented by _Evolution_ and _Judaeo-Christian Scriptures_, respectively.
    The dominant 'master', without doubt, is the former (for its demands are
    always met) - despite the fact that it is the latter which lays claim to be
    divinely-revealed truth and the sole repository of the offer of eternal life
    to believers! And, concerning 'fruits', what are we to conclude re the
    fundamental nature of a doctrine that encouraged both Hitler and Stalin to
    commit their unspeakable acts? [For whilst admitting that a similar charge
    might well be laid at the door of Christianity, there is an important
    difference: this particular faith does not invite such aberrations.]
    Further, evolution has progressively undermined the Scriptures and
    encouraged criticism and compromise.

      I don't see any reference to Evolution in those scripture references. This
    is nonsense. This is prejudicial rhetoric based on a false dichotomy. Who's
    claimed that evolution is a master. You can massage this scripture to refer
    to pretty much anything you don't agree with. For that matter, You could
    replace "evolution" with "Heliocentrism." If you believe the heliocentric
    model of the solar system, then you are serving two masters. Do you see how
    silly your argument is? And then you proved Godwin's law once again but much
    sooner that I would have expected. LOL

      Ultimately, I believe evolution and creation are not crucial theological
    issues (though some may argue because of Christ and Adam etc it is...). I
    think obviously one position is "wrong" but I don't think God will "punish"
    anyone for having the wrong idea. I think its far more important to love and
    be kind and forgive others and teach these things than it is to have all our
    theological issues correct and all nicely packaged. Intellect and
    intellectual discussions are great for those so inclined as we are, but we
    Christians should never let them come before the primary goals of loving,
    and teaching others how to love.

      I think we have to be careful when we substitute our own ideas of how we
    think God should act for sound biblical doctrine. We have to remember that
    Christ also said, for example, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord
    shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my
    Father which is in heaven." (Mt.7:21). I suggest that that 'will' must
    include our making the best use of whatever 'talents' we have received. In
    the light of the Scriptures. therefore, any doctrine that depends
    fundamentally on scientific observations and deductions involving the 'long
    ago' and the 'far away' needs to be very carefully examined - particularly
    when it requires us to rewrite the early chapters of what we clearly
    understand to be a body of _revealed truth_.

      (Fun with back-handed condescension) This is getting too easy. IOW, "I
    think [you] have to be careful when [you] substitute [your] own ideas of how
    [you] think God should act for sound biblical doctrine."

      Again, since you are posing evolution as a doctrine, all you are doing is
    presenting a false dichotomy and more prejudicial rhetoric. Scientific
    discoveries have not compromised scripture, but they have shown that YECism
    is a false doctrine of man's. Just as science has shown that geocentrism was
    a false doctrine.

      Steve



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Jun 09 2002 - 12:51:45 EDT