-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Vernon Jenkins
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 6:31 PM
To: wendee@greendzn.com
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Evolutionists' dilemma/WAS: My Daughter is a YEC
Hi Wendee,
Thanks for your prompt response. I'm glad you think my questions worthy of
an answer and look forward to further discussions with you in due course. In
the meantime I'll just comment on some of the points you've raised.
.
One question -- are you interested in knowing the answers because you want
to convince me that my position is invalid, or are you truly interested in
knowing how I (or you or another Christian) can hold to an evolutionary
creationists perspective? Because if you already have your mind made up then
no argument, no matter how powerful or logical or rational or backed by
evidence, will convince you.
I pose these 'dilemmas' in order to demonstrate the widely held view,
'creation by evolution', to be untenable.
IOW, "a view I don't like, because it goes against my preconceived
notion."
Every Christian (by divine definition) is 'a lover of truth' (Jn.18:37)
and is thus required to carefully scrutinise and weigh all 'doctrines of
men' that come his/her way.
Including YECism, "a doctrine of men."
[The so-called 'proofs' of evolution that have, so far, been brought to my
attention I find unconvincing and, in my view, incapable of overturning the
'dilemmas'.]
Of course you would find them unconvincing. I believe you would find them
unconvincing even before you happened to see them. You have no intention of
learning anything. You have made Wendee's point: "Because if you already
have your mind made up then no argument, no matter how powerful or logical
or rational or backed by evidence, will convince you."
For the Christian it is mandatory also that he/she believes the teachings
of Jesus. In his 'sermon on the mount', in particular, the Lord made
reference to two matters which are apposite in this context. He said, (1) No
man can serve two masters... (Mt.6:24) and, (2) ... by their fruits ye shall
know them (Mt.7:15).
It is clear to me that the evolutionary creationist is ignoring these
nuggets of sound instruction. Regarding the first, the two masters are
represented by _Evolution_ and _Judaeo-Christian Scriptures_, respectively.
The dominant 'master', without doubt, is the former (for its demands are
always met) - despite the fact that it is the latter which lays claim to be
divinely-revealed truth and the sole repository of the offer of eternal life
to believers! And, concerning 'fruits', what are we to conclude re the
fundamental nature of a doctrine that encouraged both Hitler and Stalin to
commit their unspeakable acts? [For whilst admitting that a similar charge
might well be laid at the door of Christianity, there is an important
difference: this particular faith does not invite such aberrations.]
Further, evolution has progressively undermined the Scriptures and
encouraged criticism and compromise.
I don't see any reference to Evolution in those scripture references. This
is nonsense. This is prejudicial rhetoric based on a false dichotomy. Who's
claimed that evolution is a master. You can massage this scripture to refer
to pretty much anything you don't agree with. For that matter, You could
replace "evolution" with "Heliocentrism." If you believe the heliocentric
model of the solar system, then you are serving two masters. Do you see how
silly your argument is? And then you proved Godwin's law once again but much
sooner that I would have expected. LOL
Ultimately, I believe evolution and creation are not crucial theological
issues (though some may argue because of Christ and Adam etc it is...). I
think obviously one position is "wrong" but I don't think God will "punish"
anyone for having the wrong idea. I think its far more important to love and
be kind and forgive others and teach these things than it is to have all our
theological issues correct and all nicely packaged. Intellect and
intellectual discussions are great for those so inclined as we are, but we
Christians should never let them come before the primary goals of loving,
and teaching others how to love.
I think we have to be careful when we substitute our own ideas of how we
think God should act for sound biblical doctrine. We have to remember that
Christ also said, for example, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my
Father which is in heaven." (Mt.7:21). I suggest that that 'will' must
include our making the best use of whatever 'talents' we have received. In
the light of the Scriptures. therefore, any doctrine that depends
fundamentally on scientific observations and deductions involving the 'long
ago' and the 'far away' needs to be very carefully examined - particularly
when it requires us to rewrite the early chapters of what we clearly
understand to be a body of _revealed truth_.
(Fun with back-handed condescension) This is getting too easy. IOW, "I
think [you] have to be careful when [you] substitute [your] own ideas of how
[you] think God should act for sound biblical doctrine."
Again, since you are posing evolution as a doctrine, all you are doing is
presenting a false dichotomy and more prejudicial rhetoric. Scientific
discoveries have not compromised scripture, but they have shown that YECism
is a false doctrine of man's. Just as science has shown that geocentrism was
a false doctrine.
Steve
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