Re: So. Baptist Spin on BOE Vote

From: John W Burgeson (burgytwo@juno.com)
Date: Fri May 25 2001 - 12:20:42 EDT

  • Next message: David F Siemens: "Re: So. Baptist Spin on BOE Vote"

    Keith:

    I thought your reply to Bill Payne was excellent.

    One possible part where I differ -- and I think it is more on word
    definitions than anything else -- was at the end when you wrote

    "These examples all involve the action, or proposed action, of human
    agents or alien intelligences which are modelled on human agents. Human
    agents (and aliens if they exist) are "natural" agents. They are as much
    natural agents as other organisms. As a paleontologist I look for the
    signs of the action of such agents (burrows, traces, boring patterns,
    etc) and distinguish them from non-biological physical agents. This is
    all within the proper perview of science. However, a "nonnatural" agent
    by definition is not subject to natural laws and processes - it can do
    anything. As such it has no predictive value."

    In an earlier post today I suggested that both God and humans can perform
    supernatural actions, else free will is a nullity. Human actions, of
    course, can be analyzed and theories made from the data -- for we "know"
    what humans are capable of (making arrowheads, building stone huts, etc."
    That is why I suggested "s/n(g)" and "s/n(h)" to stand for the two types
    of supernaturalism. So with my definitions, I'd rewrite your last
    sentence (in agreement with your point) as "However, a s/n(g) agent by
    definition is not subject to natural laws and processes - it can do
    anything. As such it has no predictive value."

    So when you assert, as you do above, that "They (humans) are as much
    natural agents as other organisms," I'd agree but I'd also add they are
    much more than that.

    Burgy (John Burgeson)

    www.burgy.50megs.com



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