[Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]]

From: Lucy Masters (masters@cox-internet.com)
Date: Wed May 23 2001 - 23:51:17 EDT

  • Next message: george murphy: "Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]"

    Lucy adds:

    OK - thanks for all the great responses! Now let me pose another
    question. Do you think that this issue of "mystery" or "ignorance" or
    "lack of understanding" (whatever you want to call it) plays a major
    role in the determined assault against the teaching of evolution? I ask
    this because in my conservative town folks like to express that God's
    creation of man is a miracle that can never be understood. They seem
    very much to prefer it that way. So as a (former) science teacher, I
    came to believe that parents hated the teaching of evolution because it
    was **explanatory** - and the understanding sort of took the "zap" out
    of faith. It was almost as though they could not conceive of humans as
    "special" unless our mode of arrival was fantastic - like the sprinkling
    of pixy dust or the waving of a wand. In order to feel a special bond
    with God, these folks needed to believe that we arrived in a mysterious
    and abrupt way.

    As you might imagine, my personal relationship with God is not impacted
    at all by thoughts of "how I got here." But that does seem to be
    terribly important to thousands of other people. What do you think?

    Lucy


    attached mail follows:


    Lucy,

    Interesting point. Yes, I would think that your "turning water into wine" by
    adding microdots of Cabernet to water would be construed by most of us as a
    trick. Sort of, "if you can do it, so can I." That's how I would approach
    an illusionist. Yet, according to John, when Jesus turned water into wine,
    "He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him."
    (John 2:11). So, maybe it's not so much the miracle itself as the person
    who performs the miracle. I would think, though, that the reaction of the
    wedding guests in Cana was not, "that's got to be a trick, because in Jesus
    can do it, we can." Note that only John mentions this miracle (as far as I
    was able to determine).

    If Jesus were to walk among us today, how would he reveal his glory to us?
    Maybe not by turning water into wine, but possibly by doing something that
    we would clearly recognize as something out of the ordinary. (As I write
    this, I rack my brain to think of an example but the only thing that comes
    to mind is cold fusion)

    I believe that God is involved in all processes, from what we have become
    used to, the commonplace, to the unusual, the miracles. The electron cloud
    around a nucleus would collapse or disperse without God's involvement.

    Chuck

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Lucy Masters [mailto:masters@cox-internet.com]
    Sent: Wednesday May 23, 2001 6:03 PM
    To: asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]

    Lucy replies:

    You asked for a suggestion. I guess I might start by posing the
    question: Is there any such thing as a creaturely process?

    For example, let's suppose I start working in the chemical lab at our
    local research hospital. In my spare time, I figure out the exact
    percentages of different chemicals which make up a fine glass of
    Cabernet. Further, I fuss around until I figure out how to condense all
    of the ingredients EXCEPT the H2O so that I'm left with tiny microdots
    of highly concentrated chemicals. I go to a cocktail party and tell
    everyone that I can "turn water into wine" just like Jesus. I fill
    everyone's wine glass with water, tell them to close their eyes, and pop
    one tiny microdot into each glass. Seconds later, they open their eyes
    to find Cabernet. Because I'm not Jesus, they wouldn't call this a
    miracle. They'd call it magic.

    But more to the point, was God involved in this process? Well, to my
    way of thinking, God is involved in all processes. He provided me with
    the intelligence and energy to figure this thing out. He provided all
    of the chemical ingredients needed to make water into wine.

    Should the folks at the table think God was not involved? Was Jesus
    MORE involved in his miracle than I in mine simply because we don't know
    **how** Jesus turned water into wine? Further, if we DID know how Jesus
    did it, would it no longer be a miracle?

    So...I would like to entertain the idea that there is no such thing as a
    "creaturely process."

    Is my thinking skewed?

    Lucy



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