-- BE SURE TO VISIT MY WEBSITE, BELOW: ----------------------------------------------------------- George Hammond, M.S. Physics Email: ghammond@mediaone.net Website: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/index.html -----------------------------------------------------------
attached mail follows:
Mark A. Grobner wrote: > > "George Hammond" <ghammond@mediaone.net> wrote in message > news:3B04D0B0.C6F18440@mediaone.net... > > Mark G wrote: > > > > > Mark A. Grobner, Ph.D. > > > Department of Biological Sciences > > > California State University, Stanislaus > > > Turlock, CA 95382 > > > > > I would like to see the "well known textbook" that would suggest that > the > > > body axis is physically caused by the first three embryonic cleavages. > > > > [Hammond] > > Well, since I don't want to move from the comfort of my living > > room chair, I will simply refer you to this URL: > > > > http://www.ucalgary.ca/~browder/cell_fate.html > > > > where you will find the following quote: > > > > quote > > ======================================================= > > MOSAIC and REGULATIVE Embryos > > > > The difference between mosaic and regulative embryos lies in the timing > > of when fate restrictions become apparent in the embryo. > > > > In mosaic embryos, the blastomeres become restricted during the first > > few cleavages. Because cell fates are established early, they cannot > > compensate for blastomeres that are removed or destroyed. E.g. in > > tunicates, separated blastomeres from the two cell embryo will develop > > into half embryos. > > > > In regulative embryos, this restriction occurs later, so regulative > > embryos can compensate for blastomeres that are removed in early > > development. > > ==========================end quote=========================== > > > > The two half embryos referred to above are mirror symmetric > > left-right half embryos well known in the literature on the > > subject (cf. Conklin, 1905 and many others) > > The "mosaic" eggs (cf. tunicates), are always of more > > primitive animals than the "regulative" eggs of say, frogs and > > humans, indicating that "regulation" is simply an evolutionary > > advance from the old mosaic eggs. Nevertheless, this only changes > > the point at which "totipotency" begins. In very primitive animals > > totipotency only exists in the egg and is lost at the first cleavage. > > In higher animals it can last through the first, 2nd or even 3rd > > cleavage. Obviously this is an evolutionary adaptation which makes > > he egg more survivable, but hardly affects it's geometrical > > properties. > > The above author only mentions the 2-cell stage producing > > symmetric (L-R) 1/2 embryos, but Conklin in 1905 showed that > > the 2nd cleavage does the same thing "dorso-ventrally" by > > separating the 4-cell stage in half dorso-ventrally and producing > > a "dorsal 1/2 embryo" and a "ventral 1/2 embryo" in various specimens. > > some researchers have even produced 4, 1/4 embryos, by fully separating > > the 4 cell stage. > > No doubt about it, as far as Physics is concerned, the first > > 3 cleavages of the egg are geometrically isomorphic to the 3 > > cartesian body axes of the zoological body plan. Same for botany > > by the way, i.e., plants as well as animals. In fact therefore, > > it holds true for "all living things". > > BTW, Physics is well aware of the spiteful and vicious heretical > > subterfuge perpetrated by Driesch and Speman against Roux by > > trying to cover up the historic implications of his initial > > discovery of this relation by playing the "totipotency" canard. > > Biology students are still hypnotized by it, but Physics is not. > > Eventually, Roux's discovery lead to a scientific proof of > > God (Hammond, 1994, 1997, see my website), and this was the kind > > of thing Roux intuitively suspected, and Speman and Driesch were > > trying to bury by all available means. > > > > -- > > BE SURE TO VISIT MY WEBSITE, BELOW: > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > George Hammond, M.S. Physics > > Email: ghammond@mediaone.net > > Website: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/index.html > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thank you for providing the url so that others can read the rest of the > information regarding fate determination in embryos. You did fail to answer > my questions from previous posts and at this point I don't expect an answer > since your theory does not support the observations in my questions. > Totipotency in mammalian embryos remains well beyond the 3rd cleavage. > Actually, the inner cell mass of the blastocyst remains totipotent as can be > demonstrated by removing cells from the inner cell mass and getting a fully > intact embryo to develop. Are you actually suggesting that the removal of a > blastomere from a 4 cell mammalian embryo will result in the formation of a > 3/4 animal? > > Mark G.
[Hammond] Never mind the smoke screen. I said the 1st 3 orthogonal cleavages of the egg causes the 3 orthogonal body axes of the animal, and you said they didn't. THE ABOVE CITATION IS PROVES I'M CORRECT. e.g., it certainly does in Mosaic eggs as proved by separation experiments which unequivocally form 1/2 symmetric and even 1/4 symmetric embryos. "Regulative eggs" are simply a more advanced egg which maintains totipotency through several cleavages. Fate cell mapping and staining shows, naturally, that the geometry above is basically unchanged.. as anyone would expect. Now get outta here and go study some more genetic and leave the proof of God to the big boys. You people argue hypotheticals all day long... I'm dealing with a real theory and a real discovery, and billions of real people who want to know if there is a real God. Get serious if you want to talk to me. Don't walk up to a serious scientist presenting a serious scientific discovery to a lot of bigtime serious religious people... billions of them and adopt a tone like said competent scientist is a crank or something. Be polite, be serious, be cautious, and reserve grand pronouncements until you know what is being talked about, or I'll kick you in the butt the minute you walk thru the door.
-- BE SURE TO VISIT MY WEBSITE, BELOW: ----------------------------------------------------------- George Hammond, M.S. Physics Email: ghammond@mediaone.net Website: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/index.html -----------------------------------------------------------
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