Re: Answersingenesis: Feeling God's pleasureGiven that most here would agree that God is the creator of all things and that He created them for a purpose (Rev. 4:11, etc.) leads one to conclude that when His creatures operate in accordance with that purpose ("functioning as designed") both the creatures and God "feel pleasure". The creature experiences pleasures because God designed the creature to experience these pleasures --physically, psychologically and spiritually-- when acting in accordance with His design. Experiencing pleasure when acting in accord with God's purpose necessarily extends to EVERY aspect of life in which we can see His intent.
Some would shy away from nonspiritual endeavors -- including sexual -- as being base or worse, but if I assent to His being the creator of all, He is necessarily the creator and ordainer of all these intended creaturely actions -- including work and sex. That we can experience pleasure from achievement or sexual pleasure or any other healthy ("intended") pleasure apart from God either inadvertently or by intent is to be expected if we grasp that (1) man is capable of choice to act in accord with or in violation of His purpose and that (2) other extremely powerful moral agents (satan and the fallen angels) are present and want man to learn that he can experience pleasure apart from God's design. It is thus not unsurprising to learn that the "sexual satisfaction" level among committed Christian couples is considerably higher than among their non-Christian peers. The spiritual dimension --acknowledging God in the ways He intended-- imparts the "overflowing" to joy and pleasure.
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: James W Stark
To: asa
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Answersingenesis: Feeling God's pleasure
on 4/8/01 8:56 PM, psiigii at psiigii@home.com wrote:
It encourages me to hear this resonates with others here. The one thing that I get the most from here is reading the thoughts of those who take the Word of God seriously. What is discussed here is very important: scientific integrity does matter. Open discourse is an essential part of this process. The whats, whens and hows of creation is not the key issue, however, and that we remember this--especially approaching Easter--is good. We have been sent into the world to glorify Him in doing what He's called us to do (endeavors in science and science education for many here) SECOND-- we are to bear witness to Him FIRST. It encourages me greatly to see this in so many of you here.
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Clarke <mailto:jdac@alphalink.com.au>
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Answersingenesis
Hi Howard
Something you wrote struck a strong chord with me.
In the movie "Chariots of Fire", Eric Little told his sister, "When I run, I feel His pleasure." Likewise, I feel that when we use the capabilities He has given us as scientists to do the things He's called us to do (including anthropology, paleontology, physics, geology, biology, etc.) and we do those things seeking the truth for His glory, we feel His pleasure and can experience the awe of grasping-- though just in thimbles-full -- the excellence of His knowledge and wisdom. I, as most who subscribe here, believe God gave me a mind to use for His glory. In saying this I thus admit that having used that mind, I see a totally inadequate epistemological basis for YEC. I
This has always been my favourite part of "Chariots of Fire". Perhaps participation in the historical sciences is as controversial for evangelical Christians in our day as participation in sport was in the 1920's.
Faith involves (or should involve) a transfer of focus from the "I" to "Thou". Much of what passes as science-faith discussion seems to focus on the "I" and the "It". However personally some of the times I have felt closest to God is when I have been not the rocks, contemplating the history of of a mountain range of a region. I have very much experienced a consciousness of "Thinking God's thoughts after Him" (is that Bacon's phrase?). Contemplation of creation should lead to awe and then to worship of the creator. This was the experience of the psalmists based on their limited knowledge, we, who know so much more, should be able respond similarly.
Respectfully Jon
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The embolded portions of the above concern me in how humans truly experience the presence of God.
How can we separate our personal experience of pleasure from that of God's pleasure?
If we feel God's pleasure when we run, are we projecting our pleasure upon God?
When we experience sexual pleasure, can we feel God's pleasure in that act? I thought sexuality was
separated from spirituality. Are the tantric experiences of Eastern followers feeling the pleasure of
God in their acts? All mortal life experiences sex and death, but immortals do not experience death.
Since God is immortal, God is beyond sex. Is God also beyond our experience of sexual pleasure?
Thus, separating sexuality from spirituality. Or can we project any of our feelings upon God?
For me to experience the presence of God, I must focus on or be aware of God's presence during an act, be it prayer
or a meditative searching for truth or a moment of awe. Is a choice to focus on God a necessary condition for God to feel
our pleasure or sense of gratitude?
Jim stark
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