Re: Discussion of Dembski Paper

From: David F Siemens (dfsiemensjr@juno.com)
Date: Fri Jan 26 2001 - 14:27:02 EST

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    Apart from the fact that you can't count (2 paragraphs numbered 7), I'm
    glad you attached Bill's opus. To simplify understanding my comments, I
    put the relevant portions before my comments.

    4. The testability objection to intelligent design can be interpreted in
    two ways. One is to claim that intelligent design is in principle
    untestable. This seems to have been Scott's line in the early nineties.
    Certainly it is a
    hallmark of science that any of its claims be subject to revision or
    refutation on the basis of new evidence or further theoretical insight.
    If this is what one means by testability, then design is certainly
    testable. Indeed, it was in this sense that Darwin tested William Paley's
    account of design and found it wanting. It simply won't wash to say that
    design isn't testable and then in the same breath say that Darwin tested
    design and refuted it.

    This is not true. If Darwin found Paley's argument as not empirically
    falsifiable, he would have one of the standard tests that it is not
    scientific.

    5 . The other way to interpret the testability objection is to claim
    that intelligent design may in principle be testable, but that no tests
    have been proposed to date. This seems to be Scott's line currently.
    Indeed, if the testability objection is to bear any weight, its force
    must reside in the absence of concrete proposals for testing intelligent
    design. Are such proposals indeed lacking? Rather than looking solely at
    the testability of intelligent design, I want also to consider the
    testability of Darwinism. By comparing the testability of the two
    theories, it will become evident that even the more charitable
    interpretation of Scott's testability objection does not hold up.

    On the testability of ID, I have asked what difference there would be in
    any empirical theory. I know of none.

    Here I put two paragraphs together, including the first one numbered 7.
    The second 7 follows.
    7. What then are we to make of the testability of both intelligent
    design and Darwinism taken not in a generic abstract sense but
    concretely? What are the specific tests for intelligent design? What are
    the specific tests for Darwinism? And how do the two theories compare in
    terms of testability? To answer these questions, let's run through
    several aspects of testability, beginning with falsifiability.
    PREDICTABILITY:
    21. Another aspect of testability is predictability. A good scientific
    theory, we are told, is one that predicts things. If it predicts things
    that don't happen, then it is tested and found wanting. If it predicts
    things that do happen, then it is tested and regarded as successful. If
    it doesn't predict things, however, what then? Often with theories that
    try to account for features of natural history, prediction gets
    generalized to include retrodiction, in which a theory also specifies
    what the past should look like. Darwinism is said to apply retrodictively
    to the fossil record and predictively in experiments that place an
    organism under selection pressures and attempt to induce some adaptive
    change. But in fact Darwinism does not retrodict the fossil record.
    Natural selection and random variation applied to single-celled organisms
    offers no insight at all into whether we can expect multi-celled
    organisms, much less whether evolution will produce the various
    body-plans of which natural history has left us a record. At best one can
    say that there is consilience, i.e., that the broad sweep of evolutionary
    history as displayed in the fossil record is consistent with Darwinian
    evolution. Design theorists strongly dispute this as well (pointing
    especially to the Cambrian explosion). But detailed retrodiction and
    detailed prediction are not virtues of Darwin's theory. Organisms placed
    under selection pressures either adapt or go extinct. Except in the
    simplest cases where there is, say, some point mutation that reliably
    confers antibiotic resistance on a bacterium, Darwin's theory has no way
    of predicting just what sorts of adaptive changes will occur. "Adapt or
    go extinct" is not a prediction of Darwin's theory but an axiom that can
    be reasoned out independently.

    Darwin predicts a relationship among living things. The only thing he had
    to go on was either gross anatomy or what little was known of cell
    structure. Witness, for example, the phylum Radiata, for coelenterates,
    ctenophores and elasmobranchs. In contrast, modern genetics has found
    similar genes doing similar things across families, orders, classes and
    even phyla. It also predicts that a section of a chromosome may be
    duplicated and genes on one of the duplications either silenced or
    modified by mutation or recombination to take on a different task. Such
    has been found, despite the fact that we have complete sequences for very
    few organisms. What has not been found is a mechanism adequate to
    originate life. Unfortunately, no one today can predict with certainty
    either that it will eventually be found or that it cannot be found, for
    it never existed. The latter is required for ID as I have found it
    presented.

    FALSIFIABILITY:
    7. Is intelligent design falsifiable? Is Darwinism falsifiable? Yes to
    the first question, no to the second. Intelligent design is eminently
    falsifiable. Specified complexity in general and irreducible complexity
    in biology are within the theory of intelligent design the key markers of
    intelligent agency. If it could be shown that biological systems like the
    bacterial flagellum that are wonderfully complex, elegant, and integrated
    could have been formed by a gradual Darwinian process (which by
    definition is non-telic), then intelligent design would be falsified on
    the general grounds that one doesn't invoke intelligent causes when
    purely natural causes will do. In that case Occam's razor finishes off
    intelligent design quite nicely.

    If there were no continuity in genes, Darwinism would be false. Darwin
    didn't know about genes, but we do.

    8. On the other hand, falsifying Darwinism seems effectively impossible.
    To do so one must show that no conceivable Darwinian pathway could have
    led to a given biological structure.

    This is false, as noted above. Additionally, given any set of empirical
    data, we can have an infinite number of equally good models. So "no
    conceivable Darwinian pathway" is impossible of attainment.

    9. The fact is that for complex systems like the bacterial flagellum no
    biologist has or is anywhere close to reconstructing its history in
    Darwinian terms. Is Darwinian theory therefore falsified? Hardly. I have
    yet to witness one committed Darwinist concede that any feature of nature
    might even in principle provide countervailing evidence to Darwinism. In
    place of such a concession one is instead always treated to an admission
    of ignorance. Thus it's not that Darwinism has been falsified or
    disconfirmed, but that we simply don't know enough about the biological
    system in question and its historical context to determine how the
    Darwinian mechanism might have produced it.

    "I have no proof" is not equivalent to "There is no proof," so this is
    specious. Fermat's Last Theorem and the Four Color Theorem remained
    unproved for centuries, but today they stand proved.

    CONFIRMATION:
    12. What about positive evidence for intelligent design and Darwinism?
    From the design theorist's perspective, the positive evidence for
    Darwinism is confined to small-scale evolutionary changes like insects
    developing insecticide resistance. This is not to deny large-scale
    evolutionary changes, but it is to deny that the Darwinian mechanism can
    account for them. Evidence like that for insecticide resistance confirms
    the Darwinian selection mechanism for small-scale changes, but hardly
    warrants the grand extrapolation that Darwinists want.

    This strikes me as assuming that we now know _all_ about origins.

    16. Now what's significant about a sequence of prime numbers from outer
    space is that they exhibit specified complexity -- there has to be a long
    sequence (hence complexity) and it needs to display an independently
    given pattern (hence specificity). But what if specified complexity is
    also exhibited in actual biological systems? In fact it is -- notably in
    the bacterial flagellum. Internet mavens have been pestering me for
    actual calculations of complexity involved in such systems. I address
    this in my forthcoming book (No Free Lunch), but such calculations are
    out there in the literature (cf. the work of Hubert Yockey, Robert Sauer,
    Peter R|st, Paul Erbrich, Siegfried Scherer, and most recently Douglas
    Axe -- I'm not enlisting these individuals as design advocates but merely
    pointing out that methods for determining specified complexity are
    already part of biology).

    What is assumed here is a purely random origin. But may there be
    biochemical patterns? unexplored conditions? Do we know enough to do the
    computations, or is this like the claim that bumblebees can't fly?

    24. It's evident, then, that Darwin's theory has virtually no predictive
    power. Insofar as it offers predictions, they are either extremely
    general, concerning the broad sweep of natural history and in that
    respect quite questionable (Why else would Stephen Jay Gould and Niles
    Eldredge need to introduce punctuated equilibria if the fossil record
    were such an overwhelming vindication of Darwinism?); and when the
    predictions are not extremely general they are extremely specific and
    picayune, dealing with small-scale adaptive changes. Newton was able to
    predict the path that a planet traces out. Darwin's disciples can neither
    predict nor retrodict the pathways that organisms trace out in the course
    of natural history.

    The parenthetical sentence indicates the foolish assumption that science
    must be always right, not subject to change. What history of science has
    Dembski been reading?

    28. First off, let's be clear that design can accommodate all the
    results of Darwinism. Intelligent design does not repudiate the Darwinian
    mechanism. It merely assigns it a lower status than Darwinism does. The
    Darwinian mechanism does operate in nature and insofar as it does, design
    can live with its deliverances. Even if the Darwinian mechanism could be
    shown to do all the design work for which design theorists want to invoke
    design (say for the bacterial flagellum), a design-theoretic framework
    would not destroy any valid findings of science. To be sure, design would
    then become superfluous, but it would not become contradictory or
    self-refuting.

    This is a curious admission. Design is superfluous, without empirical
    relevance, and therefore nonscientific unless science is redefined. Isn't
    this precisely what critics of ID have insisted all along? Of course,
    this is not what Philip Johnson has proclaimed.

    Dave



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