From: <pearson@panam1.panam.edu>
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Allen Roy wrote:
> I find this fascinating, Allen. Your description above replicates, in
> some places nearly verbatim, the belief system of the Manichaeans,
I've heard of Manichaeans, but never what they believed.
> The difficulty that Christianity has always had with Manichaeanism is that
> the latter is ontologically dualist, meaning that the cosmos is
> fundamentally divided between two opposing forces, God and Satan.
> Manichaeanism had no scruple over declaring God not the original creator,
> but a redeemer who had come to take back the world from Satan. The only
> way God could emerge victorious was to be vindicated by the people of the
> earth, who are to declare themselves on the side of God or of Satan. For
> Mani, it was winner take all, with human beings the ones to decide.
There are some points to which I agree, but there some major points of
emphasis with which I do not.
> This sounds very much like the position you voiced above, Allen. Is that
> a fair assessment? If so, how do you understand the traditional Christian
> confession of God as a providential creator who has never lost control of
> his creation? How could God be "on trial" unless He is somehow subject to
> another authority? Who is the judge in this cosmic courtroom? Is it
> possible that the verdict in this "trial" may go against God? If so,then
> what?
>
> I'm afraid this all sounds very Manichaean to me -- and thus outside
> the bounds of orthodox Christianity. Can you say more about this?
Let me start with: God is love.
He loves his created beings and wants, in turn, to be loved by them.
Real love cannot be coerced. The chanting by rote of "I love you" by
automatons is not love. True love can only exist IF there is the
possibility for one or the other party to be completely and always free to
choose to NOT LOVE! Since God is love the only party which could possibly
NOT LOVE is the created intelligent beings.
A vitally important corollary to this freedom to love or not love is that at
the very instant that God created a being with this freedom of will, God
intentionally and instantly gave up absolute control over the universe, the
created beings which populate it and future events. As long as every
created, intelligent being remains in love with God, then God is in
"control" because every loving being will automatically do the will of God
for the love of Him.
Another vitally important corollary to this freedom to love or not love is
that each created being must decide to love God base on evidence of God's
love for them which they judge to be true. Thus, in a sense, all created
beings judge God to be worthy or unworthy to be loved in return. This is
not concerning God's authority, because authority is not the issue. This is
not concerning God's strength, because strength is not the issue. This is
not concerning God's vast knowledge and wisdom, because knowledge and wisdom
is not the issue. This IS concerning God's love, for love is the issue!
It was Lucifer, a mere created being and not an equal as the Manichaean
theology seems to imply, who has thrown a monkey wrench into the works.
How? By creating doubt in the minds of the created beings that their
judgment of God as trustworthy and loving was valid. He crafted subtle lies
about God, giving the impression that God was not love but rather
self-serving. God's desire for the love and worship of his created beings
was only to satisfy His overpowering thirst for power and importance.
The result of Lucifer's deceptive work is that many created beings have
determined (judged), based on Satan's evidence, that God is not trustworthy,
or at the least that they are unsure. Among those who were deceived by
Satan's lies were Adam and Eve.
An important corollary to the choice to not love God is the fact that
Created beings are dependent upon loving God to exist. By rejecting love
from God, they also reject their very existence. They cannot exist on their
own. Rejection of God's love automatically means ceasing to exist. Thus we
find that the "wages (the natural return) of sin is death."
Is the God of Love willing to let his created loved ones just die off
without doing everything he can to win back their love? What can He do?
1st. Since it is impossible to win the love of someone who does not exist,
death is postponed for as long as sin damaged bodies can withstand the
strain.
2nd. God provided a substitutionary sacrifice of Himself in the person of
Jesus so that the truth of God's love will be clearly evident to all. Those
who chose the substitutionary sacrifice, Salvation, can yet live again in
love with God though once doomed to everlasting non-existence. That choice
to live/love is based upon judgment of God's evidence of His truthfulness.
God is BOTH Creator and Savior, unlike Manichean theology.
It is not just the fallen and saved on this planet whom Lucifer has caused,
at the very least, to wonder about the truthfulness of God. When he
confronted God in Heaven in the presence of the "Son's of God" (rulers from
throughout the vast universe) he was forcing them all to decide (judge) who
was telling the truth, God or Lucifer.
So: to answer your questions:
>how do you understand the traditional Christian confession of God as a
providential >creator who has never lost control of his creation?
God has not "lost control" of his creation. He has willingly relinquished
absolute control over intelligent beings so that they can and will truly
love Him in return. This included the possibility that some may choose not
to love and thus cease to exist despite all He might do to save them without
violating their freedom to love without coercion.
>How could God be "on trial" unless He is somehow subject to another
authority?
Authority is not on trial. Love is on trial. Because God is love, He
automatically sets himself up to be judged worthy or not worthy to be loved
in return by those whom He loves.
>Who is the judge in this cosmic courtroom?
Every created, intelligent, living being designed with the capacity to love.
>Is it possible that the verdict in this "trial" may go against God? If
so,then what?
Yes it is possible. Will it happen? Just read the last few chapter of
Revelation. Love wins. It is all or nothing. All those who reject God's
love and thereby reject existence, cease to exist. All those who accept the
substitutionary salvation will exist without end in love with God. Sin will
never again happen, not because God has coerced everyone to love Him, but
because He never coerced a single person. Everyone will know without a
doubt not only that God is love and completely trustworthy, but they will
also know by experience the terrible results of rejecting love and life from
God.
Allen
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