Re: Fw: RE: Comet Orbits

From: george murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Mon Jan 15 2001 - 14:21:42 EST

  • Next message: David F Siemens: "Re: Fw: RE: Comet Orbits"

    John W Burgeson wrote:

    > Glenn wrote: "
    > But then the question immediately arises--Is God capable of decieving us
    > about the plan of salvation? oooh--that is a bad question but the
    > logical
    > outcome of a deceptive God."
    >
    > That question ONLY arises if someone makes the claim of a deceptive god.
    >
    > Nobody, AFAIK, makes that claim. At least not in the context of
    > an origins hypothesis.
    >
    > Yes -- many OECs claim that YECs implicitly make the claim. But that
    > OEC claim must be on the basis of an inference and -- dare I say it --
    > muddy
    > thinking. Maybe unimaginative thinking is a better term.

            Of course nobody says "I believe in a deceptive God." But the
    implications of the apparent age argument are pretty hard to distinguish in
    a practical way from such a view.
            We know that we can rely on regularities of basic natural processes
    for inferring events for short intervals in the past. Bear tracks in the
    forest are evidence for a real bear. Radiocarbon abundances (with attention
    to possible variations in cosmic ray intensity &c) can be used to date
    pieces of wood for a few thousand years in the past. Tree rings give
    indications of real ages. In other words, nature is "truthful" up to about
    6000 years ago. But according to the apparent age hypothesis, nature is
    supposed to suddenly become deceptive if we try to push it past that point.
    It's a pretty small step from that to the position that the one whose
    creation nature is, and who is supposed to have seen that creation to be
    good, is deceptive.
            One response to that is, "But God has _told_ us in the Bible how old
    the earth is." That depends of course on a particular way of reading
    scripture, but let that pass for now. I think the force of that argument
    arises from the historical circumstance that for a long time in Europe the
    world was believed to be ~6000 years old on the basis of scripture, so that
    the evidence of an old earth from geology came as a challenge to an accepted
    view which was supposed to rest on divine authority.
            But look at the matter from outside that context. Consider a
    Chinese geologist who has grown up apart from any knowledge of the Christian
    tradition, but who has also escaped any anti-Christian indoctrination. He
    is well-trained in the natural sciences and has investigated the question of
    the earth's age very thoroughly and honestly, with no anti-Christian ax to
    grind, and concludes that the earth was formed ~4.5 x 10^9 years ago. Then
    one day he encounters a Christian who tells him that he is a sinner, and
    that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, God's agent of creation of the
    entire universe, and his savior from sin and death. Our geologist is
    existentially and intellectually convinced and about ready to commit his
    life to Christ. Then the Christian says, "Oh, there's just one other
    thing. The Bible teaches, and you have to believe, that God created the
    entire universe 6000 years ago."
            Now of course it's very likely that this last point would cause the
    geologist to reject Christianity, thereby pointing out the relevance of Mark
    9:42 to those who make a YEC position an essential component of the faith.
    But suppose by the grace of God that didn't happen. What could the
    geologist conclude? If he tries to use the apparent age argument to make
    sense of things, he'll think something like this: "I investigated God's
    good world as honestly and thoroughly as I could and concluded that it was
    billions of years old. To begin with I had no preconceptions about the
    matter, and was willing to consider the possibility that the geology texts
    were wrong. I would have been quite content to find that the earth was only
    about 10^4 years old. But all the evidence points to an age of several
    billion years. And I believe that God is the creator of the world and of
    its laws.
    Therefore _______________________________."
            & I leave you to fill in the blank.

    Shalom,

    George

    George L. Murphy
    "Theologia naturalis delenda est!"
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/



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