Re: Scientific method for substantiating supernatural claims

From: SHinrichs9@aol.com
Date: Wed Jan 03 2001 - 09:11:39 EST

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    In a message dated 1/2/2001 7:22:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    dfsiemensjr@juno.com writes:

    << Since ad ignorantiam is a fallacy, which you overlook or deny, and since
     my second post on the topic showed that you demand impossible standards,
     I have to classify you in the "true believer" category, that is, one
     immune to any evidence against your view. Hence I see no point in
     continuing the discussion. I regret that this is the case.
     Dave >>

    Again you did not show any flaw in the basic logic I presented. You pointed
    out that I demand impossible standards, but this is a point that I
    acknowledge in the past and most recent notes that in most cases all
    hypothesis except one cannot be ruled out. I did not consider it a critic of
    the logic just an acknowledgment that it is often impossible to meet this
    standard.

    A problem is there are critics that will just claim this standard can never
    be met so all arguments for the supernatural are not valid. Then there are
    critics who will claim any argument that does not use this standard is not
    valid Becuase it is not based on logic because PE is the really required to
    make a logical argument for a truth claim about reality. So if I don't
    mention this PE standard or I do either way critics have comments they can
    make to appear to dismiss any argument, valid or not.

    I think it is evident that PE is a key logical principal science attempts to
    use as scientist go through the process of eliminating hypothesis getting
    closer to the correct hypothesis. There are some issues as I mentioned where
    the argument can be reduced to finite number of hypothesis which can be dealt
    with. You did not address this point specifically but just broad brushed them
    all into to many hypothesis. I am aware that according to Godel
    incompleteness theorem much of mathematics cannot be completely proved true
    logically. I suspect you agree that scientist have had great success in
    understanding reality with using math that was not completely proven true but
    can be proven true assuming the fundamentals of set theory which cannot be
    proven true according to Godel incompleteness theorem.

    Rather than just complaining that there are many cases where this perfect
    standard cannot be met, I think it is more constructive to investigate if
    there are cases where this perfect standard can be met. Also, it is
    reasonable to consider unbiased assumptions such as the fundamentals of set
    theory or others. Scientist do this all the time when they investigate the
    natural world and it is just as justified for scientist that are interested
    in the supernatural world. So I think scientist that are genuinely interested
    in determining the truth about the supernatural world if it can be done would
    move on from bickering about the many cases where the perfect standard cannot
    be met, to discussing practical unbiased criterion. For example, discussing
    appropriate criterion for falsifying natural hypothesis, procedures for
    determining all possible hypothesis and identify types of issues where the
    number hypothesis are few enough to possibly address all of them. This would
    be more constructive than dead ended criticism.

    You called my position one that is immuned to evidence but my articles
    present valid criterion for falsifying my positions and you have not even
    been willing to carrying on the discussion to get to these points so I think
    my articles make it evident that your discussion deserve this criticism more
    than my articles do.



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