Re: How Far?

From: David_Bowman@georgetowncollege.edu
Date: Sat Apr 15 2000 - 08:40:39 EDT

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    Regarding Dick Fischer's question:

    >Okay, so how can two material objects - that quasar and this earth - in a
    >14 billion year old universe (give or take two) get 26 billion light years
    >apart? Neither of us can travel at anything like light speed! Am I
    >missing something?

    Dick, your question is a common one. The answer lies in the realization
    of the nature of the cosmic expansion of the universe as understood by
    general relativity. *If* spacetime was the nondynamical static flat
    spacetime of special relativity and the matter (and radiation) in the
    universe expanded from some fixed spatial center by exploding outwards
    into the preexisting empty space (as happens in a conventional explosion)
    then your observation would be correct that the distance between any two
    particles carried by the explosion cannot increase with time any faster
    than c.

    *But* this is *not* how the Hubble expansion of the universe is
    envisioned. The various galaxies (quasars and other large-scale
    structures) are *not* moving very fast through a static space. In fact,
    to a reasonable approximation their own local motions (w.r.t. a local
    frame of reference in which the expansion proceeds isotropically) can be
    *ignored altogether* on the larger length scales of the universe, and
    they can be thought of as being *at rest*. The picture is that there is
    no outer domain of empty space for the matter to expand into. Rather
    *all* the space of the universe is (and always has been since the Big
    Bang) more or less uniformly filled (on sufficiently large length scales
    much larger than typical intergalactic distances) with matter which is
    locally at rest. The universe expands because the space between the
    particles (i.e. galaxies and galactic clusters) is *stretching*. The
    distance between the galaxies is growing because more space is
    continuously being created between them as the space between them
    stretches.

    General relativity places no prior speed limit on how fast the cumulative
    effect of this stretching may occur.

    The Hubble law is that the rate of increase of separation between any two
    distant galaxies (i.e. rate of increase in the proper geodesic distance
    between these galaxies w.r.t. cosmic standard time) is directly
    proportional to the (proper) distance between them, v = H_0*d (where v is
    the rate of increase in the separating distance between the galaxies, H_0
    is the Hubble 'constant' and d is their current separation distance).
    The separation distance between two very mutually distant galaxies
    increases with time faster than it does for two galaxies that happen to
    be close together. Thus, for any two galaxies that happen to be farther
    apart than c/H_0 (i.e. d > c/H_0) the distance between them increases
    faster than c (i.e. v > c).

    So the reason that when light left the quasar 10 billion years ago when
    it was only 4 billion light years from Earth (or, more properly, from
    the part of the universe from which the Earth would later be formed) and
    it is just arriving here now with the current distance to the Quasar (or,
    more properly, to the remnant left behind by the quasar that it has since
    become) being 26 billion light years is simply that the quasar and Earth
    *have* been separating from each other *faster* than c. The average
    'speed' of this increasing separation during the light travel time has
    apparently been 2.2*c.

    Like special relativity, general relativity *does* put a restriction on
    how fast one object can move with respect to another one at *the same
    place* (or nearly the same place). IOW, when object A emits object B,
    when object A absorbs or is struck by object B, and/or when object B
    passes by object A in a 'near miss' the magnitude of the velocity of
    object B relative to object A must never exceed c, and it is *only*
    exactly c when object B is massless (such as a photon of light).
    Otherwise this relative velocity has a speed which is less than c. Here
    we have implicitly assumed that object A had a positive mass so we could
    consider the velocity of B respect to it, i.e. w.r.t. a frame in which
    object A is at rest. The main restriction imposed by relativity
    regarding speeds is that no *causally informative influence* can travel
    *locally* any faster than c. To the extent that the dynamical nature
    of the geometry of spacetime itself can be ignored (such as in
    special relativity or in general relativity on a length/time scale
    much shorter than billions of (light)years), then this speed restriction
    also extends to relative velocities between objects that are not at the
    same place. But if the space/time separations between the objects
    are comparable to that of the horizon size and age of the universe itself
    then the v < c speed restriction does not apply for motions between such
    widely separated objects. But even in this case the Hubble expansion
    cannot be used to propagate causally significant influences between
    different objects any faster than c. If the cosmic expansion carries two
    objects apart faster than c then these objects can't exert any causal
    influence on each other unless the expansion either slows down enough
    in the future or if it was slow enough in the past for a light ray
    from one object to eventually make it to the other one.

    I hope this explanation helps.

    David Bowman
    David_Bowman@georgetowncollege.edu



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