Mungo man, mtDNA and Neanderthals.

From: Glenn Morton (glenn.morton@btinternet.com)
Date: Tue Jan 09 2001 - 17:25:23 EST

  • Next message: Chris Cogan: "Re: Mungo man, mtDNA and Neanderthals."

    There is a very fascinating, preliminary press report out tonight of some
    work done with Mungo man, an early anatomically modern human from Australia.
    In fact, there is absolutely no doubt that this fossil is an anatomically
    modern form--he is what anthropologists term 'gracile', meaning thinned
    boned like us. And earlier report of the morphology of this man said:
    "In the June Journal of Human Evolution Thorne and his colleagues report
    that the fossil, known as Lake Mungo 3, now looks to be some 60,000 years
    old--nearly twice as old as previously thought--and unlike the other early
    Australian remains (all of which date to less than 20,000 years ago), this
    one bears delicate, modern features. To Stringer, this gracile form
    indicates the arrival of modern humans from Africa, albeit an early one.
    Over time, he reasons, selection could have led to the robust morphology
    seen 40,000 years later."
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/1999/0899issue/0899infocus.html

    Now, it appears that Mungo man has had mtDNA removed from his bones, and
    guess what---this mtDNA is much different than any we find in modern humans
    today. Here is what the article says:

    "Earlier studies suggested that our most recent common ancestor lived
    200,000 years ago, and traced the root of the gene tree to Africa. But the
    mitochondrial DNA from Mungo Man does not exist in modern
    mitochondria. This suggests that the most ancient lineage of the
    anatomically modern human tree so far found emerged in Australia, then
    became extinct.

    Dr John Relethford, of SUNY College at Oneonta, New York State, said the
    study highlights the danger of reading too much into mitochondrial DNA
    evidence. But it could renew debate about the 'out of Africa'
    hypothesis. Previous studies of mitochondrial DNA from three Neanderthal
    specimens were sufficiently different from modern humans to rule out
    Neanderthals as our ancestors. This suggests that they were displaced by
    modern humans, supporting the hypothesis.

    Today's study shows that it is possible to be anatomically modern but
    still have different mitochondrial DNA. Thus the lack of Neanderthal
    mitochondrial DNA in modern humans does not rule them out as our
    ancestors, said Dr Relethford.He said: "This weakens the case that the
    Neanderthals are somehow separate."

     If this report is confirmed, then this is exactly what I have been saying
    we should be aware of when using mtDNA in the apologetical manner in which
    we have been using it. Hugh Ross and others in the apologetical game have
    been saying that the mtDNA of modern humans proves that mankind arose within
    the last 60-120,000 years and that the different mtDNA of the Neanderthals
    means we are not related to them. This simply may not be the case. An
    modern human with non-modern mtDNA shows several things, among them,

    1. mtDNA is not a measure of humanity
    2. mtDNA was inherited from people on earth MORE ANCIENT THAN ANATOMICALLY
    MODERN HUMANS--meaning the archics like archaic Homo sapiens
    (500,000-100,000 years ago), and/or Neanderthal (230,000-27,000 years ago)
    or even H. erectus (1.8 million years ago-33,000 years ago).
    3. If this is true, it means that we cannot exclude the archaics from our
    family tree
    4. If true, it means that my views have been verified and other apologetical
    schema that limit mankind to the last 100,000 years have been falsified.

    One note of a recent issue concerning Mungo man. He has been dated to 60,000
    years +. Some authorities believe that he is around 30,000 years old. It
    really doesn't matter how old his is if this report is true. Why? Because
    this would be an anatomically modern human with very ancient mtDNA which HAD
    TO HAVE COME FROM PARENTAGE TRACED BACK FARTHER THAN 120,000 YEARS!

    glenn

    see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    for lots of creation/evolution information
    anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    personal stories of struggle



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