Chris
> > When did Josephus allegedly write the TF and the other quote?
>
AutismUK
>93AD I think.
Chris
So, he wasn't around during Jesus's life, but only after Christianity had
been established, and *well* after the date that Jesus was supposedly
resurrected? This hardly sounds like independent evidence of the truth of
New Testament claims.
Chris
> > Christianity,
> > as a religion, was around before the final edition of the New Testament
>was
> > put together, so mightn't Josephus simply have heard stories that
> > originated from Christians?
AutismUK
>Possibly. I think one of the reasons that it isn't viewed as just stories is
>the
>other shorter reference, and also the language, much of which is not
>"Christian" in nature.
Chris
When I talk about stories that others have told me, I will normally put
them in my own words, as many people do with such stories, and as Josephus
might well have done.
Chris
> > Where did he supposedly get *his* evidence? I
> > ask because it seems an obviously relevant consideration, and because,
>even
> > today, we hear all sorts of marvelous stories that turn out to be nothing
> > more than the kind of memetic hokum that grows in any culture of
> credulous
> > people (such as ours).
AutismUK
>I don't think this is known.
>
> > Even if we assume that Josephus wrote *exactly* what is attributed to
> him,
> > and wrote it during the time that Jesus supposedly lived, it still does
>not
> > seem like very good evidence for the reality of Jesus,
AutismUK
>Josephus has a good though not perfect reputation. I *think* it's sufficient
>to establish the reality of the existence of a Jesus.
Chris
Assuming that he wrote those passages, and that his honesty was
well-established, I would take it as sufficient to establish that
*Josephus* believed in the reality of the existence of Jesus. But, there
are way too many such reports of remarkable events and people coming from
people who honestly believe them, but which turn out to be false, for me to
take this as evidence of the truth about *Jesus*.
Chris
> > and even less good
> > as evidence for Jesus's supposed marvels, and certainly not good evidence
> > for any claim that Jesus was somehow associated with any God that we
> might
> > assume to have existed at the time, and absolutely worthless as evidence
> > that there *is* such a God.
AutismUK
>But not that particular Jesus :)
Chris
The existence of someone named Jesus who, perhaps, went around preaching,
could be true without the fantastic claims about him being true.
Establishing the bare existence of a human being requires much less
evidence than establishing such fantastic claims about him, that's all.
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