>I said:
> >What experience could *rationally* persuade a person that indeterministic
> >free will exists? The experience of the *lack* of awareness of determining
> >factors in one's own mental processes? Ah, yes, the old argument from
> >ignorance raises its (*very*) ugly head again. But, if you are doing what
> >you choose to do, and if you are choosing according to what you understand,
> >and if you are acting accordingly, what would be the *difference*,
> >subjectively, experientially, between indeterministic free will and
> >deterministic free will? That's right: Absolutely none at all.
>
>Bertvan replied:
>Most people believe in the existence of free will, which according to you is
>an irrational belief. I understand the reasoning of materialists, and while
>I differ, I do not call you irrational. If you've never had the experience
>(of exercising free will), no one can give it to you. You label those who
>have experienced free will as promoting the "(*very*) ugly old argument from
>ignorance" -- colorful words to support your own minority held philosophy.
>You speak of the "*lack* of awareness of determining factors in one's own
>mental processes." You admit all the determining factors might be unknown,
>but you have faith that such determining factors exist for every action.
>Clinging to belief in the existence of unknowns is faith, isn't it? It is a
>faith I don't share, and I'm sure you wouldn't want to try to impose your
>faith upon others, would you?
Chris
I hope everyone who reads the above notices that Bertvan is once again
accusing people who merely happen to *disagree* with her of trying to
*impose* their views on others. Oh, she phrases it as a question, but there
is *nothing* in what I've said on this or any other topic to justify such
an insinuative question. Why even bring up such a notion if she is not
trying to smear me by implicit accusation?
It is as if, upon reading her claim that "To say that 'whatever a thing is,
that's what it is' is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard," I
responded by saying, "You are not planning to kill your mother, are you?"
Because she has come remarkably close to devoting herself to making such
claims about non-ID theorists for the past two years, and because of the
enormous dishonesty of this tactic, I will have more to say on it and it's
deleterious effects on open and rational discussion in a later post, but
this should be enough for tonight.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Dec 24 2000 - 00:01:23 EST