Re: WHY DOES THE UNIVERSE WORK?

From: DNAunion@aol.com
Date: Mon Oct 02 2000 - 02:37:34 EDT

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    >FMAJ: Robison has shown a potential pathway to an IC system. Robison shows a
    natural pathway to an IC system
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe/review.html
    Behe responded to the article but seems to have missed the point.

    DNAunion: How did Behe miss the point? Surely Behe's objection to Robinson
    claiming the TCA cycle was IC, then showing it wasn't, is valid. As Behe
    points out, Behe never said the TCA cycle was IC. This comes awfully close
    to a straw man argument (making a claim the opponent doesn't with the intent
    of showing the claim to be false and thereby supposedly refuting the
    opponent's position). I have seen many instances in which anti-IDists "move
    the goal posts" to get something supposedly labeled as IC with the sole
    intent of then showing that it could arise naturally, thereby (again,
    supposedly) refuting the IC concept. This appears to be what Robinson did.

    I also agree with Behe that Robinson did not reduce the mouse trap by
    substituting a wood floor for the base - the same number of functional pieces
    were present as where the same number of functions.
     
    I also agree with Behe (though I think he may have not been clear in his
    book) that his argument was not that pseudogenes themselves could not arise
    naturally, but that the mechanisms needed to produce them (the mechanisms of
    normal cellular information flow that malfunction to produce pseudogenes)
    could not have.

    >FMAJ: A classification of possible routes of Darwinian evolution. Richard
    H.
     Thornhill1 and David W. Ussery. Published in The Journal of Theoretical
     Biology, 203: 111-116, 2000. "Possible routes of Darwinian evolution can be
    classified into four fundamental categories, as outlined below."

    DNAunion: Mike Gene posted about this article at ARN, and David Ussery even
    posted there in response to Mike's post. Perhap's Mike would fill us in
    (keeping in mind that it MIGHT not be proper to quote David Ussery here -
    though quoting others' work does seem to occur quite frequently here).

    >DNAunion: Anyway, could you provide more material as to how Behe's concept
    of IC has been refuted?
     
    >FMAJ: What has been shown is that 1) direct routes exist 2) indirect routes
    may
     exist. This means that ICness itself is not a reliable indicator of design.

    DNAunion: Again, what is the exact natural "direct route" of generating IC
    and what is the supporting evidence?



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