Rwein: Behe defines design as "the purposeful arrangement of parts" (DBB
p.193),
and there can be no doubt that he's talking about the purpose and action of
a conscious being. Although Stephen claims that ID does not require a
designer, the major ID proponents make no such absurd claim, as far as I
know. Behe has no compunction about referring to a designer. For example, he
writes: "The function of a system is determined from the system's internal
logic: the function is not necessarily the same thing as the purpose to
which the designer wished to apply the system." (DBB p. 196)
How does one determine "purposeful"? Both design and purpose suggest
something that through equivocation can easily be confused with Design and
Purpose.
Rwein: Providing you take the involvement of a conscious being to be part
of the
definition, and I think this is implied if not explicitly stated, then the
definition is meaningful. To demonstrate the presence of "design" in this
sense, IDers must show the involvement of a conscious being, and I think
this is what they attempt to do. (Unfortunately, Dembski attempts to draw a
distinction between "design" and "intelligent agency", which only confuses
the issue, but he fails to establish such a distinction, and I think it's
best to ignore it. In any case, it's clear that what he's ultimately trying
to establish is "intelligent agency", and that this corresponds to the more
widely used term "intelligent design". Of course, this type of equivocation
is common among IDers, and adds to the difficulty of clearly exposing their
logical fallacies.)
I would have to agree with you here.
Rwein: Given this implicit definition of "design", we can and should proceed
to
showing the logical fallacies in the "scientific" arguments for ID.
Wesley Elsberry and others have done some good work here.
Rwein: Otherwise, we're in danger of making this look like a philosophical
argument, when it's actually an argument between science and pseudoscience.
Indeed.
Rwein: By the way, as you might guess from the above, I have now purchased
a copy
of Darwin's Black Box. I hated to contribute to the sales of ID propaganda,
but I felt it was worthwhile if it helped me to counter that propaganda. I
am in the process of writing my critique of Behe, which will cover some
important points that seem to have been overlooked by other critics. ;-)
Looking forward to more such points. So far the list has become quite
extensive.
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