Re: Independent support for Behe's thesis?

From: Tedd Hadley (hadley@reliant.yxi.com)
Date: Fri Jun 02 2000 - 16:57:28 EDT

  • Next message: Chris Cogan: "ID theory vs. Science"

    Bertvan@aol.com writes
      in message <90.51fccb5.266907ec@aol.com>:
    >
    >
    > Hi Glenn,
    > The big complaint has been that ID doesn't do science. When it
    > does do science the outrage is even greater. Note that the
    > complaint is not over what the Chinese are doing, or even
    > disagreement over their conclusions. It is outrage that they
    > are associating with ID scientists.

       The word I saw was "embarassment" but if their science is really
       bad, what's wrong with being outraged? If the author below is
       Prof. Nigel Hughes from UCR, (http://www.trilobyte.ucr.edu/nch/index.html)
       he's quite an expert on Cambrian lifeforms and quite qualified
       to know if people are exaggerating issues or not. Read his
       specific scientific criticism again. What don't you agree with?

     [ Hughes, Nigel
       The Rocky Road to Mendel's Play
       in Evolution and Development, vol 2(2), pp 63-66 ]

    > Michael Denton
    > spoke on what he saw as a failure of genetics to unveil a universal
    > explanation for biological form, Paul Nelson on maternal effect genes, and
    > Jonathan Wells on homeotic genes. It takes guts to expose yourself in this
    > manner to a generally incredulous audience, but it also places special
    > demands if science is your objective. I was depressed to find that my
    > rudimentary understanding of molecular biology was sufficient to spot
    > egregious errors, candidly dispatched by Eric Davidson. Well's claim that
    > aspects of *Hox* gene control, instead of providing yet more evidence for
    > homology and common ancestry, actually suggest that all metazoan phyla
    > arose independently gives the flavor of what was offered. In doing so he
    > effectively denied any defensible meaning in the words such as deuterosome
    > or ecdysozoan, well established higher taxa which have been erected on
    > characters other than those genes that influence segment identity. A bold
    > claim, but one he could not reasonably defend as questioning revealed.
    > Denton was dismayed that biotic systems are more complicated than some
    > geneticists had expected in the 1960s, but the logical connection between
    > this and his belief in immutable natural designs was left unexplained. And
    > so it wen ton. The only thing new here was the presence of these arguments
    > at a meeting that was ostensibly billed as being scientific.

     <snip>
    > Several Chinese scientists gave presentations that emphasized the sudden
    > appearance of phyla, hinting at the need for a new "top-down" mechanism of
    > evolution - music, of course, to creationionist ears. Although the
    > Chenjian fauna does forcefully remind us that many body plans were firmly
    > established by early in the Cambrian, it does little more than focus
    > attention on the interesting things that happened around the
    > Precambrian/Cambrian boundary. The "phylogenetic lawn" idea is hardly new
    > (recall, for example, Gould's *Wonderful life*), and is clearly an
    > inaccurate view. Given the generous way in which scientists at the meeting
    > explained this an other matters to those allied with the Discovery
    > Institute it is disappointing to find commentaries in the *Wall Street
    > Journal* (August 16, 1999) proclaiming that Chinese scientists have new
    > evidence that questions the very basis of evolution. Predictably enough,
    > the Discovery Institute turns out to be uninterested in scientific rigor,
    > and they will do whatever it takes to promote their agenda, including
    > taking advantage of Chinese scholars. Creationism is not only a specter
    > that haunts rationality in the United States, but it is also willing to
    > employ a little cultural imperialism if it furthers the cause.



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