Re: Materialism

Susan B (susan-brassfield@ou.edu)
Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:41:41 -0600 (CST)

>Susan:
>
> > . . . It *is* true that you have to assume
> > "materialism" in order to examine nature. If a supernatural influence could
> > change the rules at a moment's notice, then you can never really know
> > anything. Since we like to know things and are curious about things then we
> > need to believe that the world is consistent, rational and isn't being
> > stirred by capricious gods.>>
>
> MikeBGene:
> >What makes you think that supernaturalism equates with the action
> >of capricious gods?

I don't think there is anything outside of nature and that nature is
rational and can be understood. Most of the myths about the supernatural
that I have ever read consist of a supernatural being doing something that
is impossible in nature as we understand it. In other words it is common for
supernatural beings to be thought able to change the laws of physics,
gravity, etc. It all depends on which myths you read, I suppose.

>>Theists contend that not only is there someone
>>who is capable of doing that, but does, upon request, if you pray hard
>>enough.
>
>They do? That's an awfully broad brush you are using. In fact,
>it is so broad it fails to accurately convey reality, don't you think?

I thought that was the absolute corner stone of theism. You pray for stuff.
Is there a theism that doesn't do that? I haven't read all the myths of all
the world cultures, but it seems to be quite common in the middle eastern
myths that I am familiar with.

>>Frankly I like the laws of physics, gravity, motion,
>>electromagnitism, exactly like they are. I like the idea that they can be
>>understood, that it's possible to figure them out.
>
>So do I. And we can thank Christian theology for helping to birth these
>ideas.

Christian theology? the laws of physics, gravity, mothion,
electromaginitism, etc are part of Christian theology? I've always been
under the impression that much of this was a product of the Renaissance and
the Enlightenment and that investigation it to these topics was at one time
or another objected to by Christian theology. Sometimes strenuously.
Sometimes burning the investigators at the stake.

>>If you see an anomoly, or
>>something you didn't expect, you can study it and maybe find out what it is.
>>If the anomoly was caused by a bored Zeus entertaining his latest girlfriend
>>we can *never* understand it. It'll be just some god moving in mysterious
>ways.
>
>Perhaps this explains why there has never been a scientist who believes
>in Zeus.

:-) Aristotle would be shocked to hear you say this.

>But does all theism reduce to belief in Zeus?

what's the difference? gods are gods

Susan
--------
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