Re: Are humans irreducibly complex?

Susan Brassfield (susan-brassfield@ou.edu)
Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:35:21 -0600

>>Bertvan [to Chris]:
>>>At least you say it is your GUESS that it is accidental, leaving room for
>>>some to guess otherwise. While the concept of self organization is
>>>interesting, I'm unaware anyone has yet found evidence that it applies to
>>>biological systems.
>
>Chris:
>>I think this is where it is seen to apply MOST. I can't think of any
>>biological system where it is not a major factor . . .
>
>Bertvan:
>You are absolutely right. (Knee-jerk reaction on my part, I think.) I was
>thinking of the stuff Sturart Kauffman is doing, suggesting that all matter
>is self organizing. I wasn't aware he had found a way to apply that to
>living systems.

as far as I know, living systems are made of matter. There's no
*particular* reason to believe that organic chemicals can't self-organize.

>But it does seem obvious that all biological systems are
>self-organizing. Is that accepted by most neo Darwinists? Self organization
>implies some kind of script, blueprint, plan or order, to me. At least,
>until we know how biological system organize themselves, there is no reason
>to deny it might be according to some design.

I"m not much into chemstry but I think there are a limited number of
specific ways that chemicals can organize themselves.

>If biological systems are self
>organizing, there would be no reason to assume mutations are random, would
>there?

why not? what governs which genes will make an error in replication? or
which genes get damaged (or just changed) by radiation?

>And no need for Natural Selection to "design" any new organs, systems
>or body parts, would there? Natural selection might be just a minor
>screening process to eliminate failures, those organisms which didn't come
>out according to plan, mightn't it?

actually, that's *exactly* what natural selection is. It's a weeding
process. Whose plan?

>Random mutation and natural selection
>as an explanation of macro evolution is the part of evolution of which I am
>skeptical. While I hear more and more scientists share my skepticism,

It is very obviously *one* of the mechanisms of evolution. I think the
scientist's skepticism you are hearing about is whether or not it's the
*only* mechanism. And that skepticism is in the past, since additional
mechanisms are now known.

Susan

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