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evolution-digest Saturday, January 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1277
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:34:19 -0700
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evolution-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1273
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:04:19 -0700
From: "Kevin O'Brien" <Cuchulaine@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Anthropic Principle IS a probability argument
Greetings Lloyd:
"Am I right to assume by this that you mean 'at least four dimensions'?"
Technically speaking, perhaps. But if I understand the hyperspace model
correctly, six of the ten dimensions are "inaccessible"; that is, we cannot
perceive or interact with them directly, even though (as Dave explains) they
account for the non-gravitational interactions of the universe. As such,
for all intents and purposes, we can limit the universe to four dimensions.
However, as far as my question is concerned, it would not matter whether the
universe in fact had five, six or even more perceivable dimensions, just as
long as it had more than three.
Kevin L. O'Brien
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evolution-digest Thursday, January 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1272
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evolution-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1271
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evolution-digest Tuesday, January 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1270
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evolution-digest Monday, January 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1269
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evolution-digest Sunday, January 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1268
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Date: 1/16/99 9:10:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: M.STEVENS14@GTE.NET
Subject: [none]
M.STEVENS14@GTE.NET
To: M.STEVENS14@GTE.NET
Subject: Good News for Christians
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Click here to visit our website: www.gnmall.com/websites/suncoast
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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:19:47 -0700
From: "Kevin O'Brien" <Cuchulaine@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Anthropic Principle IS a probability argument
Over a week ago I asked Glenn the question:
"Since the universe in fact has four dimensions how does this affect your
argument?"
And I received the following answers:
David Bowman: "The universe has 3 *SPATIAL* dimensions even though its
spacetime manifold is 4-dimensional. Glenn specifically stated '3 spatial
dimensional universe'."
Glenn Morton: "I wrote 3 SPATIAL dimensions."
I appreciate the quick responses, but they do not really answer my question.
Instead, they assume that I either did not read Glenn carefully or that I
deliberately ignored his use of the term "spatial". Neither alternative is
the case. Rather my question was meant to suggest that our labeling three
dimensions as spatial and one as temporal may in fact be naive, based more
on how we perceive these dimensions than on real knowledge of their true
character.
In a later post Dave Bowman wrote what I feel is an excellent succinct
summary of what has been called the "hyperspace" model: "But what if it can
be proved that the dimensionality of spacetime must be 10 (as the most
viable superstring theories claim) in order for any TOE [theory of
everything] to be logically internally consistent and free of embarrassing
singularities that cause the theory to break down in any of various ways.
And further, what if the TOE predicts that 6 of those 10 dimensions *must*
be compactified into a well-defined tiny closed compact subspace (whose
effects cause all the nongravitational interactions in nature) according to
the built in logic of the TOE so that there *must* be 4 extended
(noncompact) dimensions of spacetime left whose signature requires that 1 of
them be a temporal dimension and the other 3 be spatial in character?"
I disagree that the "signatures" of the extended dimensions "requires" that
there be one temporal and three spatial. My reading of the hyperspace model
(admittedly from the popular scientific press -- _Scientific American_,
_Science News_, _Discover_ and the like -- including books like _Hyperspace_
and _Cosmic Questions_) indicates that the theorists for the most part view
the different dimensions as being equivalent. In fact many of them have
crudely referred to these dimensions as "spatial", in the sense that the
10-dimensional universe can be crudely visualized as a 10-dimensional
hyper-object (hence the term "hyperspace") within 10- or 11-dimensional
space. I have seen no attempt by any theorist to characterize these
dimensions on the basis of any kind of "signature" or "flavor" or whatever
else you want to call it. As a result I could be wrong, but my impression
is nonetheless that the dimensions of hyperspace in fact have all the same
"signature" (or very nearly so) and that our characterization of "temporal"
vs. "spatial" is subjective and naive based on perception and tradition, not
hard science.
So if this is true, I ask again: how does the fact that the universe is
made up of four dimensions affect Glenn's argument?
I should point out that I tend to agree with Dave on this issue. If in fact
the universe is a 10-dimensional "hyper-object" it may have no more choice
in what values to give to the universal constants than a cube has in
determining how many faces it should have or at what angle those faces
should connect.
Kevin L. O'Brien
- - ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:42:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Lloyd Eby <leby@nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Anthropic Principle IS a probability argument
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Kevin O'Brien wrote:
> how does the fact that the universe is
> made up of four dimensions affect Glenn's argument?
Am I right to assume by this that you mean "at least four dimensions"?
Lloyd Eby
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evolution-digest Friday, January 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1276
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:51:08 -0500
From: Mike Nolan <rainforest@mail.org>
Subject: RAINFOREST and MARINE BIOLOGY WORKSHOPS
RAINFOREST and MARINE BIOLOGY WORKSHOPS
After reviewing the brief program descriptions outlined below, please
consider offering these opportunities to Students, Faculty and
Staff....a brochure and detailed itineraries are available upon request.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Mike Nolan
***********************************************************
Rainforest and Reef Conservation Fund 501 (c)(3) non-profit
29 Prospect NE Suite #8
Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503 USA
Phone/Fax: (616) 776-5928/E-mail: rainforest@mail.org
***********************************************************
*Sites: Belize, Costa Rica, Honduras, Panama, Ecuador, Peru and
southeast Alaska
*Workshops are field oriented and focus on natural history, rainforest
and marine ecology, conservation, land management, medicinal uses of
native plants, local cultures, archaeology and geology
*Instruction features local Biologists and naturalist Guides
*Proceeds go to sponsoring organization in each country and help support
valuable education/conservation projects
*Three Undergraduate or Graduate credits in the Natural Sciences or
Education are available for attending through Aquinas College of Grand
Rapids, Michigan (www.aquinas.edu)
*Workshops are sponsored by the Rainforest and Reef Conservation Fund, a
501(c)(3) non-profit corporation based in Grand Rapids, Michigan USA
*During 1998 our Workshops included participants from 40 states, 4
Canadian Provinces, England, South Africa, Australia and Brazil. Forty
three universities were represented by faculty and students, along
science professionals, high school groups and lay people with an
interest in natural history and other topics covered in our programs.
For 1999 we presently have groups from Penn State, Purdue, University of
Maine, University of Connecticut, College of New Jersey, Muhlenberg
College of Pennsylvania, Calvin College of Michigan and a number of
junior colleges and high schools.
BELIZE
Length: 14 Days/13 Nights
Cost: $980.00 per person
Host/Course Coordinator: Belize Tropical Education Center/Tony Garel,
Belize City, Belize
Topics Covered:
*Tropical Moist Forest Ecology
*Marine Ecology
*Mayan Archaeology
*Garifuna Culture
Highlights:
*Community Baboon Sanctuary
*Chan Chich Lodge and surrounding tropical moist forest
*R=EDo Bravo Conservation and Management Area
*Chaa Creek Natural History Center and Blue Morpho Butterfly Farm
*Ix Chel Farm and Panti Medicinal Plant Trail
*Cockscomb Basin Wildlife Sanctuary and Jaguar Preserve
*Garifuna drumming and dancing
*Mayan site of Xunantunich
*South Water Caye
*Great Barrier Reef of Belize and nearby marine ecosystems including,
grass beds, patch reefs, mangroves
*Sea bird rookeries
COSTA RICA
Length: 12 Days/11 Nights
Cost: $850.00 per person
Host/Course Coordinator: Juan Pablo Bello Carranza, Las Juntas, Costa
Rica
Topics Covered:
*Tropical Rainforest and Dry Forest Ecology
*Conservation and Land Management
*Geology/Volcanoes
Highlights:
*Monteverde Cloudforest Reserve
*International Children's Rainforest Reserve
*Santa Elena Cloudforest Reserve
*Arenal Volcano
*Palo Verde National Park
*Tempisque River trip
*Santa Rosa National Park
*Costa Rican cattle and dairy ranch
*Abangares gold mines, Ecological Museum and Butterfly Garden
*Reforestation project along banks of the Abangares River
*Mist-netting and study of vampire bats
*Evening presentations on local cultures, medicinal uses of rainforest
plants, sustainable uses of forests and Costa Rican history
*Post-Course extensions to Corcovado and Tortuguero National Parks
HONDURAS
Length: 14 Days/13 Nights
Cost: $765.00 per person
Host/Course Coordinator: REHDES/Jerry Haylock, La Ceiba, Honduras
Topics Covered:
*Tropical Rainforest and Marine Ecology
*Conservation and Land Management
*Mayan Archaeology
*Garifuna Culture
Highlights:
*Mayan site of Copan
*Village of Tela and traditional Garifuna music and dance
*Lancetilla Botanical Garden and Research Center
*Jeannette Kawas National Park
*Cuero and Salado Wildlife Refuge
*Pico Bonito National Park
*Bay Island of Utila
*Marine ecosystems, including coral reefs, mangroves and tidal pools
*Evening presentations on conservation, rainforest and marine ecology
*Butterfly Farm and Museum
*White-Water Rafting on the Canjegral River
*Post-Course extension to La Mosquitia and the R=EDo Pl=E1tano Biosphere
Reserve
PANAMA
Length: 14 Days/13 Nights
Cost: $1100.00 per person
Host/Course Coordinator: Win Rice, Panama City, Panama
Topics Covered:
*Tropical Rainforest and Marine Ecology
*Conservation and Land Management
*Geology/Volcanoes
*Indian Cultures
*R.O.P.E.
Highlights:
*Chagres National Park
*R.O.P.E. Course
*Mist-netting and study of birds and bats
*White-water rafting on the Piedres and Chagres Rivers
*Embera Indian village of Parara Puru
*Panama Viejo (old Panama City), colonial city and modern-day Panama
City
*Panama Canal
*El Cano Archaeological Park
*Bastimentos National Park and the Bocas del Toro Archipelago
*Marine ecosystems including, mangroves, grass beds and coral reefs
*Gnobe and Bugle Indian cultures
*La Fortuna Nature Reserve
*Highland mountain village of Boquete
*Baru Volcano and National Park
*Orchid, fruit and coffee plantations
*Evening presentations on tropical medicine/jungle first-aid and orchids
of Panama
*Post-Course partial and complete Panama Canal transits
ECUADOR
Length: 14 Days/13 Nights
Cost: $1050.00 per person
Host/Course Coordinator: Jatun Sacha Foundation/Dr. Michael McColm,
Ph.D., Quito, Ecuador
Topics Covered:
*Tropical Rainforest Ecology
*Biodiversity
*Conservation and Land Management
*Quichua Indian Culture
Highlights:
*Quito
*Andes Mountain Range
*Alpine and cloudforest ecosystems
*Jatun Sacha Biological Station and surrounding tropical rainforest
*Plant Conservation Center
*Solo experience in the rainforest
*Animal Rehabilitation Center
*Local Shaman's nursery, home visit and "cleansing" demonstration
*Quichua Indian village of Capirona
*Avenue of the Volcanoes
*Highland Indians and villages of Ecuador
*Banos
*Evening presentations on a variety of rainforest and conservation
topics
*Post-Course extension to the Gal=E1pagos Islands and/or Cuzco and the
Lost City of the Incas-Machu Picchu
PERU
Length: 15 Days/14 Nights
Cost: $1145.00 per person
Host/Course Coordinator: Dr. Paul Beaver, Ph.D., Indian Shores, Florida
Topics Covered:
*Tropical Rainforest Ecology
*Biodiversity
*Conservation and Land Management
*Indian Culture
Highlights:
*Amazon River
*Tamshiyacu-Tahuayo Biological Reserve-included by Audubon Magazine on
its=92 list of top 50 ecologically based tour destinations in the world
(Sep/Oct 1998)
*Fourteen primate species
*Evening cruise on the Tahuayo River
*Pink freshwater dolphins of Charro Lake
*Caiman Lake
*Jungle community of Santa Ana
*Giant lilypads of Barbasco Lake
*Local Shaman "good luck-good health" ceremony
*Rainforest canopy experience
*Camping on the interior of the Tamshiyacu-Tahuayo Reserve
*Local Indian village market
*Post-Course extension to the Gal=E1pagos Islands and/or Cuzco and the
Lost City of the Incas-Machu Picchu
SOUTHEAST ALASKA
Length: 14 Days/13 Nights
Cost: $995.00
Host/Course Coordinator: David Berg, Petersburg, Alaska
Topics Covered:
*Temperate Rainforest and Marine Ecology
*Conservation and Land Management
*Marine Mammals
*Geology/Glaciers/Volcanoes
*Indian Cultures
*Russian History
Highlights:
*White-water rafting on the Sauk River in Washington state
*Cascade Mountain Range
*Inside Passage of southeast Alaska
*Wrangell
*Petroglyph Beach
*Petersburg
*Sea kayaking
*Whale watching in Frederick Sound
*LeConte glacier
*Camping in temperate rainforest
*Starrigavan Bay estuary and near-shore tide pools
*Harbor Mountain-Gavan Hill Trail hike and camp
*Mount Edgecumbe hike and camp
*Tlingit Native dancing and cultural experience
*Sitka Historical Park
*Sheldon Jackson Museum and its=92 collection of Native artifacts
*Sage Science Center and fish hatchery
*Sitka Raptor Rehabilitation Center
CONTACT US FOR DETAILED WORKSHOP ITINERARIES
REFERENCES AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST
Rainforest and Reef Conservation Fund 501(c)(3) non-profit
29 Prospect NE Suite #8 Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503 USA
Phone: (616) 776-5928/Fax: (616) 776-5931/E-Mail: rainforest@mail.org
WORKSHOP DATES 1999*
Number Course by order of preference with #1 being your first choice.
Spaces are filled on a first-come first-serve basis. Please be aware
that Courses are popular and may fill quickly. It is recommended that
you register as early as possible.
BELIZE: 14 D/13 N Jun 15-28_____ Jul 13-26_____ Aug 3-16_____
COSTA RICA: 12 D/11 N Jun 14-25_____ Jul 12-23_____ Aug 9-20_____
HONDURAS: 14 D/13 N Jun 10-23_____ Jul 8-21_____ Aug 5-18_____
PANAMA: 14 D/13 N Jun 12-25_____ Jul 10-23_____ Aug 7-20_____
ECUADOR: 14 D/13 N Jun 17-30_____ Jul 15-28_____ Aug 4-17_____
PERU**: 15 D/14 N Jun 26-Jul 10_____ Jul 10-24_____ Jul 24-Aug 7 _____
**Our Peru Workshop can be offered to individuals and groups on most
Saturdays throughout the year.
SE ALASKA: 14 D/13 N Jun 17-30_____ Jul 4-17_____ Jul 18-31_____
*Other dates throughout the year are available upon request
- ------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:34:22 -0700
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evolution-digest Sunday, January 24 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1275
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:22:24 -0800
From: "Glenn R. Morton" <grmorton@waymark.net>
Subject: did hominids evolve in Eurasia?
There have been some very interesting developments in Anthropology which
have some bearing on the views I have advocated. In fact I find this
evidence to fit very nicely with two predictions I have made concerning the
origin of man. In 1995 (Foundation Fall and Flood 1st ed. p. 131,132) I
suggested that man was created in the Mediterranean region when it was a
dry basin. This is called the Messinian Salinity Crisis after the beds on
Sicily where the first evidence was found. And it was 5.5 myr ago.
In the summer of 1995 I submitted "The Mediteranean Flood" to PSCF and it
was finally published at the end Dec. 1997. I made the same suggestion
there (Dec. 1997, p. 245,247). The second prediction was that mankind
entered Africa immediately after the Flood which I said was the infilling
of the Mediterranean. (FFF, p. 138)What has come out are two different
studies that weakly support my position. The first concerns the Miocene
Apes with regard to their ancestral status.
I first became aware of the new evidence while reading Christopher Wills'
Children of Prometheus, (Reading, Mass, Perseus Books, 1998). Shortly after
this there were some news reports about the hands on a miocene ape. And
then Adam Crowl e-mailed me with a note about the fossil evidence.
Christopher Wills had a short discussion of this evidence. It concerns a
10 million year old ape, Oreopithecus bambolii. He writes:
"Upright posture may not be unique to our own lineage. An ape that lived
ten million years ago on Sardinia, Oreopithecus bambolii, seems to have
acquired similar capabilities, perhaps independently." " Christopher Wills,
The Children of Prometheus, (Reading, Mass: Perseus Books, 1998), p. 156
He referenced an article from the Proc. Natl. Acad. of Sciences, Meike
K=F6hler and Salvador Moy=E0-Sol=E0 "Ape-like or hominid-like? The position=
al
behavior of Oreopithecus bambolii reconsidered" Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA
Vol. 94, pp. 11747-11750, October 1997 =20
The abstract from the PNAS web site reads,
"Comparative morphological and functional analyses of the skeletal remains
of Oreopithecus bambolii, a hominoid from the Miocene Mediterranean island
of Tuscany-Sardinia (Italy), provides evidence that bipedal activities made
up a significant part of the positional behavior of this primate. The
mosaic pattern of its postcranial morphology is to some degree convergent
with that of Australopithecus and functionally intermediate between apes
and early hominids. Some unique traits could have been selected only under
insular conditions where the absence of predators and the limitation of
trophic resources play a crucial role in mammalian evolution. "
This raises an interesting point. Bipedality has been the sine qua non in
the definition of a hominid! This ape stood 3' 7" tall and weighed 66
pounds. Until 1992, Oreopithecus was the only late Miocene ape that had
left remains of its postcranial skeleton.(see Moya-Sola and Kohler, Nature
379(1996):156-157.) But in 1992, the postcranial remains of Dryopithecus
laietanus were found in Spain and they also showed evidence of an
'orthograde' locomotion. Moya-Sola and Kohler note:
"Several features of the trunk of Dryopithecus suggest adaptation for
orthograde postures. The lumbar vertebrae are proportionally shorter than
those of cercopithecoids and proconsulids. The transverse processes
originate on the pedicle dorsolaterally on the vertebral body, and the
caudally directed spinal process indicate reduced mobility of the lumbar
region. The more dorsally situated costal foveae of the thoracic vertebra
imply a more ventral postion of the spinal column and hence a broad thorax.
The claviccle is proportionally longer than in African apes and comparable
in relative size to the lengths of clavicles of Pongo and Hylobates. This
suggests that the scapula of Dryopithecus was situated dorsally on the
thorax as in extant hominoids, and that the clavicle would have been
oriented more vertically than in African apes, and similar to Pongo and
Hylobates, a character linked to suspensory postures." ~ Salvador Moya-Sola
and Meike Kohler, "A Dryopithecus Skeleton and the origins of Great-Ape
Locomotion," Nature, Jan. 11, 1996, p. 157-158
To further support this hypothesis,Moya-Solas, Kohler and Rook published a
recent Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci, USA article in which they studied the hand
bones of Oreopithecus bambolii. They concluded that the hand of
Dryopithecus was remarkably human-like. The abstract says:
"Functional and allometric analyses of the hand of the late Miocene ape
Oreopithecus bambolii (Tuscany, Italy) reveal a series of features that
reflect an improved grasping capability including firm pad-to-pad precision
gripping that apes are unable to perform. Related features such as hand
length, relative thumb length, a deep and large insertion area for the
tendon of the long thumb flexor, and the form of the metacarpal 2/capitate
articulation are not present in extant or fossil apes. In these features,
the Oreopithecus hand closely matches the pattern of early hominids,
presumably as a response to similar functional demands." Salvador
Moy=E0-Sol=E0*,, Meike K=F6hler*, and Lorenzo Rook, "Evidence of hominid-lik=
e
precision grip capability in the hand of the Miocene ape Oreopithecus,"
PNAS Vol. 96, Issue 1, 313-317, January 5, 1999
So, now we have two of the Miocene apes assuming a more upright stance with
one of them having a rather advanced hand. Given that the earliest hominids
appear to have been fully bipedal, this tendency for European apes to
become more upright with hominid-like hands appears to be consistent with a
European origin of the hominids AND consistent with my view.
The second item concerns a cladistic study of the miocence apes, Gorilla,
Australopithecus and chimps. David Begun used 240 separate traits in his
phylogenetic study. He explicitly stated that his study indicated that
hominids entered Africa from Eurasia AT THE END OF THE MESSINIAN SALINITY
CRISIS.=20
"Recent work in molecular and morphological systematics continues to
support the existnece of a great ape and human clade that excludes
hylobatids. Many researchers in hominoid systematics now refer to this
clade as the Hominidae. The origin of the hominids, as defined in this
way, is widely believed to e African, with Kenyapithecus most often cited
as either an ancestral hominid or as the sister clade to the hominids (but
see Benefit and McCrossin, 1995). Recent analysis of a large data base of
cranial, dental and postcranial characters (n=3D240) from 13 fossil and
extant hominoid taxa suggests a different picture. The most parsimonious
cladogram (446 steps) CI-63) links hylobatids to fossil and living hominids
to the exclusion of either Proconsul or Kenyapithecus. The most
parsimonious cladogram with Proconsul as the hominid outgroup requires 41
more steps, and that with Kenyapithecus as the outgroup requires 11 more
steps. This result serves to define a clade, the euhominoids, that excludes
all African early and middle Miocene taxa. Furthermore, this result
suggests that the oldest known diagnostically hominid hypodigm is that of
Sivapithecus from the Chinji Formation of the Siwaliks. Close in age to
this is Dryopithecus, followed by Ouranopithecus, Oreopithecus, and
Lufengpithecus, all from Eurasia. Euhominoids and hominids are thus seen as
primarily Eurasian, which suggests an explanation for the dearth of
hominid fossils in the late Miocene of Africa. Hominids may have entered
Africa for the first time only in the late Miocene or early Pliocene from
Eurasia, possibly following the Messinian salinity crisis." E. R. Begun, "A
Eurasian Origin of the Hominidae," American Journal of Physical
Anthropology, Supplement 24, 1997, p. 73-74
The lack of hominid fossils from the Miocene in Africa does appear to be
consistent with the idea that hominids evolved elsewhere and then moved
into Africa. In a more detailed report of his work he and coauthors state:
"A second clade leaving Africa may have led to the Asian great ape clade,
including Sivapithecus, Pongo, and also Ankarapithecus (Begun and Gulec,
1996), while a third clade, more closely related to African apes and
humans, may have followed. Oreopithecus and Lufengpithecus may represent
other distinct clades, as suggested by Fig. I, or Oreopithecus may be
associated with the Dryopithecus-Ouranopithecus-African ape and human clade
and Lufengpithecus with the Asian great ape clade (see above). This is a
centrifugal view of hominoid origins and diversification, with more
primitive clades being displaced to the peripheries of the range of the
Hominoidea, and more derived clades evolving in the center of the range,
and is consistent with the model proposed by Groves (1989) for other
primate taxa.
"Another possibility is that euhominoids evolved in Eurasia, with the
African ape and human clade returning recently to Africa. This would
explain the poor fossil record of African Miocene euhominoids, and the
apparent persistence of Proconsul or Kenyapithecus-like forms at a few
later localities (Hill and Ward, 1988). Griphopithecus from Slovakia and
Turkey may represent the ancestral stock from which hominoids diverged,
again in three major divisions: hylobatids, Asian great apes, and African
apes and humans. The last group may have further subdivided into European
and African branches, with the more terrestrial African branch returning to
Africa sometime during or after MN 10, about 9 Ma, when the area was
becoming drier (Steininger and Rogi, 1979; Steininger et al., 1985). There
is no compelling paleogeographic evidence to suggest one of these views
over the other. Connections between Africa and Eurasia were intermittent
throughout the middle and late Miocene, and appropriate ecological
conditions were apparently available for either of these two scenarios to
have occurred (Steininger etal., 1985)." David R. Begun, Carol V. Ward, and
Michael D. Rose, "Events in Hominoid Evolution," Function, Phylogeny, and
Fossils: Miocene Hominoid Evolution and Adaptations, ed. By M. D. Rose et
al, (New York: Plenum Press, 1997), p. 389-415, p. 413
Now, before I get my usual criticism that I believe some monkey from the
Miocene could build an ark, I don't. I have held that hominids evolved
from previous apes, and I have suggested that the site of Adam was in the
Mediterranean. Adam was much more advanced than Oreopithecus or
Dryopithecus. The fossil evidence would appear to give some support to this
view that the Tethys region was the site of hominid origins. And in my
opinion, this is an instance where new data has confirmed my earlier
prediction. While very few Christian apologists are willing to risk making
predictions about what future data will show, it is an essential part of
the confirmation of an idea. And before people totally dismiss my views as
being out of the mainstream, look at the above successful predictions.
Even though they are weak support for my veiws, they are indeed=
confirmatory.
glenn
Adam, Apes and Anthropology
Foundation, Fall and Flood
& lots of creation/evolution information
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:34:20 -0700
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evolution-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1274
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 6:31:51 EST
From: David Bowman <dbowman@tiger.georgetowncollege.edu>
Subject: Re: Anthropic Principle IS a probability argument
Concerning Kevin O'Brien's comments of 20 JAN 99:
>I disagree that the "signatures" of the extended dimensions "requires" that
>there be one temporal and three spatial.
I think you may have misunderstood my meaning when I used the term
"signature". The signature *defines* how many dimensions are spatial and
how many are temporal. It is a technical term in the theory of
differential geometry. I explain further below.
> My reading of the hyperspace model
>(admittedly from the popular scientific press -- _Scientific American_,
>_Science News_, _Discover_ and the like -- including books like _Hyperspace_
>and _Cosmic Questions_) indicates that the theorists for the most part view
>the different dimensions as being equivalent. In fact many of them have
>crudely referred to these dimensions as "spatial", in the sense that the
>10-dimensional universe can be crudely visualized as a 10-dimensional
>hyper-object (hence the term "hyperspace") within 10- or 11-dimensional
>space. I have seen no attempt by any theorist to characterize these
>dimensions on the basis of any kind of "signature" or "flavor" or whatever
>else you want to call it.
As I understand it the leading superstring theories have a 10-dimensional
spacetime with a signature that requires that there be one temporal
dimension and 9 spatial dimensions. All six of the compactified
dimensions are (I think) *spatial* in character.
> As a result I could be wrong, but my impression
>is nonetheless that the dimensions of hyperspace in fact have all the same
>"signature" (or very nearly so) and that our characterization of "temporal"
>vs. "spatial" is subjective and naive based on perception and tradition, not
>hard science.
No. Time *is* physically different than space. Our perceptions cannot
detect differences between things for which there are no physical means
of distinction between them. IOW, if two things are physically
indistinguishable then our senses cannot perceive a difference between
them either. Spacetime has a Lorentzian signature (i.e. there is *1*
dimension of time and the rest of the dimensions are spatial). If it had
a Riemannian (or Euclidean) signature then all of the dimensions would be
spatial.
In the mathematical theory of differentiable manifolds which are endowed
with a metric (or sometimes called a *pseudo*metric to distinguish the
metric concept here from that of *metric spaces* where that notion of
metric includes a strict positivity requirement) there are two important
integers which are properties of the manifold. The first is the
dimension of the manifold. The dimension is effectively the minimum
number of real-valued coordinates that are necessary to label the
distinct points of (a sufficiently small topologically open and connected
subset of) the manifold. The second property is the signature of the
manifold which is the difference between the number of positive
eigenvalues and the number of negative eigenvalues of the metric tensor
at each point of the manifold. For the spacetime manifold of General
Relativity the dimension is 4 and the signature is 2. This is because
3 + 1 = 4 and 3 - 1 = 2. Here the 3 is the number of the *spatial*
dimensions and the 1 is the number of the *temporal* dimensions. The
eigenvalue of the temporal dimension is of the opposite algebraic sign as
those of the spatial dimensions, and this difference is what gives time
its uniquely different characteristics than those of the dimensions of
space.
The Lorentz signature of spacetime is a mathematical pain in that many
calculations and derivations are much more cumbersome (and less pretty)
than they would be if the signature was Euclidean (dimension=signature=4)
with 4 spatial dimensions and no temporal ones. Because of this often
workers in the field of theoretical high energy physics, general
relativity and cosmology often multiply the temporal coordinate by
i(=sqrt(-1)) which formally has the effect of changing the sign of the
temporal eigenvalue. This makes the theory formally look like it is for
a manifold of only spatial dimensions and the calculations become much
more tractable. In order to compare the results of the calculations with
actual experimental results in our universe they substitute back the
real time parameter in for the formal imaginary time parameter used to
simplify and symmetry-fy the derivations. It should be noted that this
trick needs to be used with caution because the topologies of the
symmetry groups for a Euclidean-signatured manifold are different than
those topologies for a corresponding Lorentz-signatured manifold, and
these topological differences can lead to errors for the unwary. In
fact, an example of this trick is behind Stephen Hawking's No-Boundary
proposal for the initial conditions of the Big Bang. When a Big
Bang-type spacetime is analytically continued over to imaginary time
then the inital BB singularity disappears in the Euclidean (4 space no
time) theory and this has certain suggestive implications for the
original spacetime theory.
>So if this is true, I ask again: how does the fact that the universe is
>made up of four dimensions affect Glenn's argument?
I'll leave this for Glenn.
>I should point out that I tend to agree with Dave on this issue. If in fact
>the universe is a 10-dimensional "hyper-object" it may have no more choice
>in what values to give to the universal constants than a cube has in
>determining how many faces it should have or at what angle those faces
>should connect.
>
>Kevin L. O'Brien
It should be remembered that at this stage it is still a big *IF* and a
*MAY*.
David Bowman
dbowman@georgetowncollege.edu
- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:18:11 -0500 (EST)
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