This was a good topic to get this list going again.
At 11:30 AM 12/1/97 GMT, David J. Tyler wrote:
>[a short contribution re catastrophist geology]
>
>On 30 Nov 97 at 21:08, Glenn Morton wrote:
>
>> Geology accepts catastrophic glacial dams failing, but they don't scoop out
>> canyons like the Grand Canyon.
>
>The Grand Canyon of Yellowstone National Park is one canyon created by
>glacial dam failure.
>
>There are a host of factors to consider here - the geological work done by
>surging floodwaters can generate a diverse variety of morphologies.
Let me ask those who wish to explain the Grand Canyon by the collapse of
glacial lakes, how many lakes must have collapsed in order to carve it. The
canyon is intersected by lots of other big canyons which didn't come from
the major hypothetical lake up the Colorado River. The canyon looks like,
**13 **12
** **
** **
** ******* 1** **2
** ******************* ** **
** *********** **** ***
*** ** **3 **
** ** ** **
** ** 10 ** **
** ** * 9 *****
** ** * ** 8 7 **6 ***
*** ** 11* * ** ** ** **
**** ** ** ** ** ** **5 ** 4
** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ********
** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** *********
** ** ********************** ** **
** ***********************************
** ****************
**
**
**
**
**
** 14
The numbers refer to the following canyons which also had to be excavated:
The names came off of the USGS map I bought at the Grand Canyon.
1. I can't find the name of this canyon
2. Colorado River channel
3. Nanoweap
4. Little Colorado
5. vishnu creek Canyon
6. Clear Creek Canyon
7. Bright Angel Creek Canyon
8. Dragon Creek Canyon
9. Modred Abyss
10 Merlin Abyss
11. Muav Creek Canyon
12 Tapeats Creek Canyon
13 Kaibab Canyon
14 Havasu Canyon
If you want to say that the grand canyon was excavated by a SW flow from a
glacial lake, were each of the subcanyons (a couple of which are quite
large) also excavated by glacial lake collapse? Were there 14 such glacial
lakes, even to the south to account for Havasu Canyon? Was there a lake at
the head of each of these canyons? If not, how did a single collapse
(flowing to the west) excavate canyons oriented from due north to due east
to south east?
This makes no sense.
Besides, I think you who believe that the canyon was excavated by a glacial
lake collapse should perform the calculation to prove that there was enough
water for the excavation of such a large canyon. I am going to, so if you
want to beat me to the punch, better get calculating.
>
>Regarding the Mt St Helens canyon, Glenn writes:
>> Remember that volcanic ash is very soft and of ONE lithology. The Grand
>> Canyon has many different lithologies. The situation at Spirit Lake is quite
>> different from the Grand Canyon.
>
>This is a relevant observation - and it has some bearing on the
>Yellowstone River Canyon also. It is worth asking: what other factors
>are relevant to Grand Canyon? Fault control of erosion?
A look at the geologic map of the Grand canyon shows that there are faults
along many of the canyons. But then creeks everywhere follow faulting so
this should be no surprise.
Ongoing high run-
>off? In the case of Grand Canyon, it is necessary also to explain the
>incised meanders - features which suggest that the present is not the key
>to the past.
But just because the past has unexplained items, does not mean that the
global flood IS the explanation. Account for the excavation of the canyons
and their orientation in your model.
glenn
Adam, Apes, and Anthropology: Finding the Soul of Fossil Man
and
Foundation, Fall and Flood
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm