Re: logic makes a comeback
Paul Brown (pdb@novell.uidaho.edu)
Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:26:35 PST Although one does not prove a premise, something one can do (as
has been noted many times in various posts) is look for internal
logical consistency in the argument. Although it does not affect
the argument itself, one can also look at the practical
outworkings (behavior) of those who claim the argument (Jim Bell
has addressed this somewhat as far as this effects Christians or
other theists). Russel, you have done a little of the latter
(with allegations about crusaders, etc.) but have completely
ignored the former. For example, in responding to a previous post
of mine (not to mention numerous others), you did not answer a
single question that was raised, nor did you show how the
Christian position of declaring that there are transcendent moral
standards was logically inconsistent with the premise. Your
inability to deal with this does not reflect a lack of
intelligence. The problem is the premise.
If you didn't like the previous questions, we'll try some others.
Ask yourself the question: Is rape wrong? Is it wrong just for
you, or wrong also for Billy down the street, the crusaders, Ted
Bundy, and you? Not just, "is it socially deviant?" Picking your
nose might be socially deviant. Not, "is it socially
unacceptable?" Not, "do most people think its wrong?" Is it wrong.
Yes or no.
The answer logically consistent with materialism is
"no," because right and wrong are absolute non-material moral
categories that *do not even exist* if matter, time, space and energy
(or any other material construct) are the sum total of reality.
Materialists always want some sort of transcendent moral order when
it comes to Hitler, or rapists, or somebody else stealing their
stuff, or bigots, or racists, or that mean person over there.
Those people are wrong, bad, sick, jerks, even evil, while they are
good. But they don't want any transcendent moral order over them.
That would be too much like a big stick over their head. For that,
they just want to make up whatever seems right in their own mind.
You can't have it both ways.
Regards, Paul D. Brown
MPI of Chem. Ecol. WSU/UI