You're the one being illogical. Not to mention extroardinarily prejudiced.
>That, or they borrow moral capital from
>another system.
Such as humanist morality, which owes absolutely no debt to any religion.
>JB>If one accepts "survival of the fittest" one HAS TO
>>conclude that there is a class "less fit."
>
>RS<<Only if one believes that there is such a thing as clearly definable
>"races" of humans with distinct genetic differences.Not to mention the fact
>that "less fit" is an entirely subjective term.
>
>Right! That's the point. A materialist-evolutionist can define fitness as he
>pleases. Hitler defined it as Aryanism. Was he wrong? Evolution can't say. It
>doesn't have the moral syntax.
You cut out the rest of my paragraph in order to make my argument fit in
with your preconceived notions. This is called quoting out of context, and
it is an extremely dishonest tactic. Is that what you consider moral
behavior?
><<I can tell you that, speaking as an atheist, I believe that what Hitler did
>was wrong and evil, because I believe in humanist morality. That is, I believe
>very strongly in the sanctity (if I can use that word) of human rights and
>human happiness. Why? Because I know that I have feelings and emotions, and I
>can logically conclude from observing other humans that they do too. I know
>what it feels like to be hurt, and I don't want to inflict that on another
>person if I can in any way avoid it. Furthermore, I don't want to let another
>person inflict that one someone.>>
>
>This is entirely circular and therefore unconvincing.
It's convincing to me, and to practically every other atheist I know. Indeed,
it's a rather simple concept; if you are incapable of understanding it,
that simply represents a shortcoming on your part.
>You feelings and
>emotions carry no philosophical weight whatsoever.
They carry all the philosophical weight in the world, because I *know* without
a doubt that they exist. And I can logically extrapolate from that fact that
other people have the same feelings and emotions. Are you really so dense that
you are incapable of understanding this simple concept?
>JB>Having said all that, an evolutionist is not ipso facto a racist. Of course
>not.
>
>RS <<Of course you have to throw out that scrap of a concession to keep from
>sounding like a complete religious bigot.
>
>Your subjective vituperation is showing! C'mon, Russ, let's keep this on a
>higher plane and not resort to name calling, you godless materialist, you. ;-)
You'll have to pardon me for getting a little defensive here, but you are
making some huge, sweeping assumptions. You are mischaracterizing an
entire group of people whom you do not even begin to understand. Open your
mind a little, and recognize that there are other belief systems out there
that are perfectly acceptable. I have extended that courtesy to you.
><<My moral rejection of racism is based on my own empathy for the feelings of
>others; my own recognition that other humans have feelings just like myself.
>You may call that a "transendent system", but it is still completely
>materialist in origin.>>
>
>No, it is NOT a transcendent system.
Thank you. By your own admission, I have met your challenge. I have built
a moral code that is not based on a transcendent system.
>It is subjective.
But it obviously works, since I haven't raped or murdered anyone, and I
have no desire to do so.
>They are mutually
>exclusive categories. Recognize what philosophers for thousands of years have
>explained: materialism and transcendence don't go together. IOW, "you can't
>get OUGHT from IS."
>
>You borrow your oughts, and you ought to acknowledge it.
I have borrowed nothing. The foundation of my morality is explained in detail.
The only argument you can bring against it is, "I can't understand it, so
therefore it can't be right." That's not good enough.
_____________________________________________________________
| Russell Stewart |
| http://www.rt66.com/diamond/ |
|_____________________________________________________________|
| Albuquerque, New Mexico | diamond@rt66.com |
|_____________________________|_______________________________|
If Rush is Right, then I'll take what's Left.