Re: Theory and Fat [sic]

Brian D Harper (harper.10@osu.edu)
Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:07:43 -0500

At 06:34 PM 2/18/97 +0800, Steve Jones wrote:
>Group
>
>On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:21:06 -0500, Brian D Harper wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>SC>...I simply wish to point out that the theory of evolution can,
>>in fact, include a model for prebiotic evolution.
>
>>SJ>Unless some sort of detailed mechanism is specified, it is
>>vacuous....if "evolution" means simply "change through time" then
>>by definition it is true, even tautologous.
>
>>BH>And now I will hold you to your own criteria. Please specify for
>>me the detailed mechanisms used by the Intelligent Designer. If you
>>cannot do this then I will have to conclude that your so-called
>>Intelligent Design model is vacuous.
>
>>SJ>No. The "Intelligent Design model" does specifiy a "mechanism", the
>>word of command of the "Intelligent Designer':
>>
>>"And God said, `Let there be...,' and there was..." (Gn 1:3,6,9,
>>11,14,20,24,26); "By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,
>>their starry host by the breath of his mouth" (Ps 33:6); In the
>>beginning was the Word...Through him all things were made; without
>>him nothing was made that has been made." (Jn 1:1-3).
>
>BH>OK, fine, but it is not necessary for ID to appeal to God.
>
>SJ>First, Brian now acknowledges that the "Intelligent Design model"
>does specifiy a "mechanism". This is in contradistinction to
>naturalistic evolution which has no specified mechanism, eg. for
>"prebiotic evolution."
>

I acknowledeged a "mechanism" but certainly not a mechanism if
mechanism is to be taken in the scientific sense. In other
words, I assumed that you put the word in quotation marks to make a
distinction between things like chemical reactions and
"And God said, `Let there be...,' and there was...".

>BH>Earlier we were discussing panspermia and you mentioned that you
>>were confident that a civilization capable of designing and building
>>interstellar space craft would also likely be able to create life.
>>So, what I'm interested in knowing is what mechanisms would such a
>>civilization use to create life. If you can't specifiy these then
>>this panspermia variant is, according to your line of reasoning
>>above, vacuous.
>
>SJ>No again. An advanced civilization would presumably create life in the same
>way that naturalistists believe they will one day be able to do it,
>with intelligent design:
>

Presumably???????

You said previously to SC "Unless some sort of detailed
mechanism is specified, it is vacuous ...". And now presumably?
Please Steve, give me the detailed mechanism.

Brian Harper
Associate Professor
Applied Mechanics
Ohio State University
"Aw, Wilbur" -- Mr. Ed