Re: a couple of questions

Brian D Harper (harper.10@osu.edu)
Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:00:47 -0500

At 07:57 PM 2/11/97 +0800, Steve Jones wrote:
>Group
>
>On Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:06:29 -0500, Brian D. Harper wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>BH>why the switch from MN to N mid-sentence?
>
>>SJ>I had already explained it before. Here it is again:
>>
>>"It follows from the definition. Naturalism means that nature is all
>>there is. So `methodological naturalism' means that the scientist,
>>even if he/she is not a metaphysical naturalist (ie. does not
>>believe that nature is all there is) must *assume* that nature is all
>>there is in doing science."
>>
>>I presume the "N" in methodological naturalism is the same "N" in
>>metaphysical naturalism? If it isn't, perhaps Brian can explain the
>>difference between them.
>
>BH>Perhaps we can let Phil explain it. In a footnote on page 212 of
>RITB Phil writes..."Methodological_ naturalism --the principle that
>>science can study only the things that are accessible to its
>>instruments and techniques--is not in question. Of course science
>>can study only what science can study. Methodological naturalism
>>becomes metaphysical naturalism only when the limitations of science
>>are taken to be limitations upon reality...I would not express the
>>point that way today..."
>>
>>I am quite happy with Phil's definition of methodological naturalism:
>>
>>"the principle that science can study only the things that are accessible
>>to its instruments and techniques"
>>
>>Sound familiar? I hope so since this is what I've been trying to
>>explain for decades.
>
>SJ>I'm quite happy with it too. What's the difference between the
>above and what I said:
>
>SJ>"Naturalism means that nature is all there is. So `methodological
>>naturalism' means that the scientist, even if he/she is not a
>>metaphysical naturalist (ie. does not believe that nature is all
>>there is) must *assume* that nature is all there is in doing
>>science."
>

The difference is that "the principle that science can study only
the things that are accessible to its instruments and techniques"
has nothing to do with whether "nature is all there is".

Or, to put it another way, the instruments and techniques of science
cannot determine whether or not "nature is all there is". A scientist
is certainly free to assume that nature is all there is if they so
choose, but this assumption has nothing to do with "the principle that
science can study only the things that are accessible to its instruments
and techniques".

No offense intended, but I suspect that you might be confusing
methodological naturalism with scientism. For example, the following
appeared earlier in this thread:

>>BH>I continue to be confused in the way that several use the term
>>methodological naturalism. Can anyone point to some references
>>wherein this term is defined?
>
>SJ>Johnson defines MN as:
>
>"A variety of terms have been used in the literature to designate the
>philosophical position I call scientific naturalism. For present
>purposes, the following terms may all be considered, equivalent:
>scientific naturalism, evolutionary naturalism, scientific
>materialism, and scientism. All these terms imply that scientific
>investigation is either the exclusive path to knowledge or at least
>by far the most reliable path, and that only natural or material
>phenomena are real. In other words, what science can't study is
>effectively unreal." (Johnson P.E., "Darwin on Trial", 1993, p116).
>
>But I would have thought that definition is hardly necessary in this
>case - the words define themselves. The only *method* to be used in
>science is *naturalism*, and "naturalism" is the assumption that
>"nature is all there is".
>

In the pasage you quoted Johnson was defining scientism rather than
methodological naturalism.

Brian Harper
Associate Professor
Applied Mechanics
Ohio State University
"Aw, Wilbur" -- Mr. Ed