Birds have lizard hips!

NIIIIIIICHOLAS MATZKE (NJM6610@exodus.valpo.edu)
Wed, 3 Jul 1996 1:39:02 -0500 (CDT)

Hi. Nick Matzke here. I am a student at Valparaiso University, and have been
lurking on this listserv for several weeks. Ever since playing with dinosaurs
and going to Sunday school while in Kindergarten, I have been interested in
evolution and science and the implications they have for our ideas about the
supernatural, religion, and morality. I am still working out my worldview, but
a lot of what is said in this listserv is stuff that I agree with (then again,
I violently disagree with the rest - but hey, fruitful discussion is what this
is all about, right?). I may jump in on the philosophy at a later date, but
one glaring error from a recent post needs to be corrected for fruitful
discussion to continue:

Steve Jones said:
"There is a couple of slight problems with this that the ordinary
reader would not be aware, but every palaeontologist would know:

Firstly, Ornithomimid is a member of the order Saurischia
(lizard-hipped) as opposed to the order Ornithischia (bird-hipped):

It is the *Ornithischia* from which birds are thought to have
descended from, *not the Saurischia*"

Actually, my Jan. 1993 _National_Geographic_ (p. 18) says:
"Ironically, birds descended from lizard-hipped dinosaurs, only later
developing deflected pelvic bones."

Let's not assume the intent of every scientist is complete pro-evolutionary
propaganda! Steve Jones error probably comes from his misinterpretation of a
quote that says birds are "cousins" of ornithischians. Indeed they are, but
distant ones. They are much closer cousins of the fossil under discussion. In
light of this, I think Jones needs to rewrite about half of his post -
we have a dinosaur that (through evidence of kinship, like lizard hips) is
thought to be related to birds, and this dinosaur is also displaying
bird-like traits. It seems to me that this is a fair point in favor of the
theory of bird evolution - not "propaganda".

That said, I agreed with much of the rest of what Jones said: the story about
the creature's death seems far fetched, and convergent evolution is a problem
(though not an unsolvable one, as the current example shows).

Thanks for listening. Comments welcome.
Nick