Just a quick response here. We already got this message on the evolution
reflector. I'm not sure why you didn't get it back.
As to your distinction between evolution and mediate creation and your
reference to Hodge, I have the following to say. As much as I dislike the
particulars of the terminology, you yourself have recognized that I'm
really a "progressive creationist" when it comes to the origin of man. My
position has been that God used a hominid body and then by a *miraculous
special creative act* created a human being, body and soul, from that
pre-existing hominid. This is the position that was soundly rejected by
the OPC General Assembly. In other words, since I did not adopt a positon
of "immediate" creation of the body of Adam from literal *dust of the
ground* (ordinary dirt), my view is contrary to Genesis 2:7 and the Larger
Catechism Question 17.
Your view, if you would assert that there any kind of biology continuity
between a hominid body and Adam's body (other than common design), would
have been ruled heretical as well. I have always claimed that there is
discontinuity (image of God, uniqueness from the animals, etc.) and
continuity (hominid ancestors, anatomical-physiological-genetic-biochemical
similarity) when it comes to origin of man.
Of course, on my view, all evolution is mediate creation anyway, admiting
both *preexisting substance and cooperation*, but some minds don't seem
able to grasp that concept ;-)
TG
>Terry
>
>
>This is my second or third attempt at sending this message! I am
>sending it via ibm.net, not my usual service provider iinet.net.au.
>If this and other international messages go OK, I will subscribe to
>the Reflector under this new ISP. This message is public, so feel
>free to respond via the Reflector.
>
>God bless
>
>Steve
>
>==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>
>Group
>
>On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:53:50 -0400, Terry M. Gray wrote:
>
>>Some have expressed interest in the outcome of my appeal before the OPC
>>General Assembly. So here's the word.
>>
>>The 63rd General Assembly of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church,
>>meeting at Geneva College June 6-13, DENIED my appeal.
>
>[...]
>
>TG>And now,
>this thirteenth day of September, A.D. 1995, comes Terry M. Gray,
>>Ph.D. and appeals from the judgment of the Session of Harvest Orthodox
>>Presbyterian Church in the case of Terry M. Gray, Ph.D., and in support of
>>said appeal sets forth the following specifications of error:
>>
>>The Session of Harvest Orthodox Presbyterian Church erred in:
>>
>> 1. Denying the request of the Defense to dismiss Charge 1 (That
>>Dr. Terry Gray has committed the public offense of stating that Adam had
>>primate ancestors, contrary to the Word of God (Genesis 2:7, 1:26, 27) and
>>the doctrinal standards of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (WCF IV.2, WLC
>>17)) on the grounds that said charge is not an offense serious enough to
>>warrant a trial.
>
>
>[...]
>
>Despite our disagreements, I sympathise with Terry in believing that
>Adam had primate ancestors. I cannot see that Genesis 2:7, 1:26, 27
>forbids that view. Indeed, I would have thought that Genesis 2:7:
>
> "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and
> breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became
>
> a living being"
>
>leaves the *means* by which God did the forming an open question.
>
>The real problem, IMHO, is Terry's claim that this was *Evolution*,
>rather than *Mediate Creation*. I can well see why an Orthodox
>Presbyterian Church would object to the former (with its secular,
>atheistic overtones), but may not object to the latter, since the
>very same term was used by Hodge:
>
>"But while it has ever been the doctrine of the Church that God
>created the universe out of nothing by the word of his power, which
>creation was instantaneous and immediate, i. e., without the
>intervention of any second causes; yet it has generally been admitted
>that this is to be understood only of the original call of matter
>into existence. Theologians have, therefore, distinguished between a
>first and second, or immediate and mediate creation. The one was
>instantaneous, the other gradual; the one precludes the idea of any
>preexisting substance, and of cooperation, the other admits and
>implies both. " (Hodge C., "Systematic Theology", Vol. I, 1892,
>James Clark & Co: London, 1960 reprint, p556).
>
>God bless.
>
>Steve
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Stephen E (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ sejones@ibm.net |
>| 3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ sjones@iinet.net.au |
>| Warwick 6024 ->*_,--\_/ http://www.iinet.net.au/~sjones |
>| Perth, West Australia v (My opinions, not my employer's) |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Stephen E (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ sejones@ibm.net |
>| 3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ sjones@iinet.net.au |
>| Warwick 6024 ->*_,--\_/ http://www.iinet.net.au/~sjones |
>| Perth, West Australia v (My opinions, not my employer's) |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Stephen E (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ sejones@ibm.net |
>| 3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ sjones@iinet.net.au |
>| Warwick 6024 ->*_,--\_/ http://www.iinet.net.au/~sjones |
>| Perth, West Australia v (My opinions, not my employer's) |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Stephen E (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ sejones@ibm.net |
>| 3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ sjones@iinet.net.au |
>| Warwick 6024 ->*_,--\_/ http://www.iinet.net.au/~sjones |
>| Perth, West Australia v (My opinions, not my employer's) |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________________________________________________
Terry M. Gray, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry
Calvin College 3201 Burton SE Grand Rapids, MI 40546
Office: (616) 957-7187 FAX: (616) 957-6501
Email: grayt@calvin.edu http://www.calvin.edu/~grayt
*This mission critical message was written on a Macintosh with Eudora Pro*
A special message for Macintosh naysayers:
http://www.macworld.com/pages/july.96/Column.2204.html