On Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:42:31 -0500 you wrote:
>I wrote
>BH>However, I disagree with your implication that TE implies God does
>not intervene. I am simply claiming that God's means of intervention
>(or more properly, as a Calvinist, I should say "governance" since to
>me intervention implies a change in plans) are not necessarily
>visible to humans.
SJ>Why does intervention imply "a change in plans"? Why could not God
>have *planned* to intervene? Rev 13:8 says that Jesus was "the Lamb
>that was slain from the creation of the world.". This indicates that
>God *did* plan to intervene in human history.
BH>Stephen responded to one of two points I made above (the one about
>governance v. intervention) and I responded to him in another post. What I
>was really interested in was Stephen's response to my claim that "God's
>means of intervention...are not necessarily visible to humans." It seems
>to me that much creationist reasoning implicitly assumes that God's
>interventions (or His acts of governance) can be detected and identified by
>objective observation. In many -- perhaps most -- cases, I believe this
>assumption is not justified.
Is this something I missed? If it is implied that I assume that
"God's interventions...can be detected and identified by objective
observation", let me put the record straight. I make no claim for
this. In fact, my answer to Bill on this point was as follows:
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BH>I would simply say that God's methods of controlling events in
nature are not entirely _visible_ to humans. Isaiah 55:8-9 comes to
mind.
SJ>I have no problem with this. In fact I believe it enthusiastically.
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Indeed, somewhere I pointed out that if God intervened and caused
Acanthostega to grow a foot out of a fin, then the original act(s) of
creation would never be detected. Indeed, even if we knew in advance
it was going to happen, and we were watching the particular fish with
a full battery of scientific tests, would we ever seen God working? I
doubt it.
I have often wondered if we were watching Jesus' hands close up when
He multiplied the loaves and fishes, what would we see? Would we see
fish and bread being cloned? Or would it happen "in the twinkling of
an eye" (1Cor 15:52). I believe the latter.
A verse that means a lot to me is Job 26:14:
"And these are but the outer fringe of his works; how faint the
whisper we hear of him! Who then can understand the thunder of his
power?"
God bless.
Stephen
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