On Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:51:12 EDT you wrote:
>Some words about date-finding using Biblical chronology;
JR>As Stephen pointed out, the number of years from the birth of
>Cain (or maybe Seth) to Solomon can be calculated directly. As
>for the most significant dates thereafter, I don't think it
>matters all that much; most of them (e.g. Babylonian captivity,
>destruction of Jerusalem, etc.) are known within a few years from
>secular history, archaeology, etc. Using these dates to date the
>earth requires the literal interpretation of the creation account
>and 6 actual days of creation.
Did I really point this out? I don't believe it is possible to
directly calculate the length of the OT genealogies because
there are gaps and it is not clear they are all lengths of
life - some of them are rounded and symbolic (see Kidner, Whitcomb
& Morris)
JR>Why must the birth of Christ be calculatable from the Old
>Testament? Unless you do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was
>the Messiah you can find what you need in the New Testament
>combined with secular history. However there is one OT clue that
>I can't remember the reference.
Jer 31:15=Mt 2:18
JR>It has to do with Rachel crying
>for her children in Bethlehem and Ramah "because they are not".
>This is usually interpreted as the slaughter of male children 2
>years old and younger in the area around Bethlehem. This was
>ordered by Herod the Great, the vassal king over Judaea. The Wise
>Men came looking for "the King of the Jews" and Herod told them
>to come back and tell him where this King was so that Herod could
>then go and worship, too. Some say that this occured 2 years
>after the actual birth of Christ but this is preposterous.
Why is it "preposterous"?
JR>This
>king Herod was extremely suspicious and paranoid even to the
>point of executing some of his own sons whom he percieved to be a
>threat. The Roman Emporer Augustus was reputed to have said in
>reference to this "I'd rather be Herod's hog than his son"
>because a hog would not be killed and eaten due to the Jewish
>dietary rules. Reports of angels heralding the birth of a new
>king would have undoubtably reached Herod through his informants
>within a few days of the event. The reason that he killed all
>those 2 years and younger is that he wanted to be sure he wasn't
>taking any chances. In all likelihood the Wise Men showed up on
>the night of Jesus' birth
This is not clear from the text, ie. Mt 2:1. It is the picture on our
Christmas cards, but it could have been later. However, since Josephus
records that Herod died shortly after a lunar eclipse (Hendricksen on
Mt 2:1) and the eclipse was in 4 BC, a) Jesus had to be born in or
before 4 BC and the three (?) wise men had to have visited soon after
Jesus' birth.
JR>leaving their expensive gifts, which
>Joseph was able to use to use to finance the flight to Egypt,
>which he had been instructed in a dream to make.
Yes. This had ocurred to me years ago. Mt 2:11 records that
these were "gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh" from
among the Magi's "treasures". It is difficult to know how
valuable they were.
JR>The NT also
>states that Jesus and his parents were also able to return in
>time for him to be dedicated in the tmeple when he was 40 days
>old (as required by OT law) because Herod the Great had died. The
>date of this Herod's death is also known within a few years from
>secular history.
Yes. From Josephus Antiquities XVII.167.
JR>One more parting shot, I'll repeat an argument I got from a Bible
>teacher I respect. If you don't believe Jesus of Nazareth was the
>Messiah and you are still waiting: How will the Messiah prove his
>lineage to David if and when he does finally show up? At the time
>of the NT, these records were kept in the temple and it was
>common knowledge even to those who did not believe in Jesus'
>diety that he was the descendant of King David, heir to the royal
>throne. These records were destroyed along with the temple and
>much of Jerusalem by the Roman General Titus in 70 AD. Has any
>one else been keeping a credible record of the Jewish royal line?
>If not, the Messiah had to come before 70 AD.
I used to fellowship with a group called J.E.W., the Jewish
Evangelical
Witness (I am not Jewish BTW). This was a telling point that they
made in their witness to Jews. There is apparently no way that modern
Jews can substantiate their lineage.
God bless.
Stephen
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