Re: evolution evidence
Kevin Wirth (kevin.wirth@accessone.com)
Thu, 29 Jun 95 20:58:28 PDT>To: Lloyd Eby <leby@nova.umuc.edu>
>From: kevin.wirth@accessone.com (Kevin Wirth)
>Subject: Re: evolution evidence
>
>Lloyd Eby wrote:
>
>>I think that you unduly separate between evidence (data) and what you call
>>a story ("theory" would be a more accurate term). As numerous philosophers
>>of science -- Pierre Duhem, Karl Popper, Norwood Russell Hanson, Frederick
>>Suppe, Ernan McMullin -- have pointed out, facts (data) are theory-laden.
>>Popper gave a nice demonstration: Go into a lecture hall full of people
>>and command them, "Observe, and write what you observe." Will they be able
>>to comply with your order? No, unless you tell them *what* to observe. So
>>the notion that data (as you put it) is neatly separable from a story (as
>>you put it, again) is incorrect.
>
>Well Lloyd, fine. Data are NOT theory laden, I'm sorry. PEOPLE are theory
laden.
>And everyone in a lecture hall would undoubtedly come up with a different
theory
>about how to *interpret* data. You don't have to *tell* people what to
observe:
>that my friend is a seriously flawed presumption! And that's exactly why
we are
>in the pickle we're in today! Far too many scientists have felt that it
was their
>duty to tell people how to think, how to interpret the evidence. And sadly
enough,
>they have even taken this to such an extreme that they feel it is their duty to
>PUNISH those who fail to interpret the data along party lines.
>
>
>>Think of the analogy of crime-solution or forensic investigation. Does the
>>detective just gather data? Of course not. Otherwise he'd take endless
>>pictures of the grass 20 feet away from the corpse, or of the roof
>>shingles of the house, or do endless chemical analysis of the leather in
>>the shoes, or whatever. Instead, he has a *theory* (probably tacit) that
>>guides his data-collection, and he collects data so as to confirm or
>>falsify that theory. (Crime and forensic invesigations are sufficiently
>>standardized -- there is a regnant theory -- that, in practice, certain
>>data is always deemed to be germane and is routinely collected.) Of
>>course, that theory is tentative and subject to change or even abandonment
>>as his investigation proceeds. But, apart from a theory, there is nothing
>>to guide the collection of data. Data is always data relative to a
>>theory, or a small number of competing theories.
>>
>>There is no such thing as data in the abstract. Even the data coming from
>>the Hubble telescope -- a string of digital bits -- becomes meaningful as
>>data when someone has a theory or interpretaion by which this data is
>>organized into a theory (story). Otherwise it's just a string of bits, of
>>gobbledygook.
>>
>>This notion that data and theory (or story) are separable was a central
>>tenet of positivism; it is now thoroughly discredited and no philosopher
>>of science, so far as I know, still holds it.
>
>Lloyd. Get real here. I never said data should be looked at APART from a
theory.
>What I said was that (if you were reading carefully) the notion that we
must accept
>evolution as THE best or THE only explanation is flawed. And, I further
noted several
>rational reasons why evolution is not compelling. What I said was that the
DATA or the EVIDENCE is linked with speculative and imaginative STORIES.
These are fantasies, and some of the best men in paleontology and other
fields of science related to this issue readily admit it! You can't get
around this. I can list hundreds of reasons if need be, and I can do a
pretty fair job of showing that I'm in good (evolutionary) company. You
have attempted, for whatever reason, to make my argument into something it
never was.
>
>The bottom line here is that as long as we must rely on speculation, there
is no compelling reason which REQUIRES us to adhere to evolution. Failing
to make a distinction between evidence and the model of evolution is a
serious error, but
>people do it all the time.
>
>Kevin
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Kevin Wirth, President
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