Re: Antony Flew shifts his position due to scientific evidence

You completely miss the point. The issue is not whether Jews have some prior right to the land but whether Muslims have any interest in living in peace with them there - as they had for centuries under Islamic rule. Islamic claims to all of Palestine are not primarily based on human rights of refugees but on the religious notion that that territory, having once been Islamic, is forever part of the "house of Islam." (As distinguished from places like Britain and America which are the "house of war" - i.e., territories that Islam should conquer.)

Of course there are some legitimate claims of Palestinian refugees. But their plight is much worse because of the fact that the Arab nations encouraged them to leave at the beginning of the 1948 war and ever since then have been using them as pawns. The "occupied territories" wouldn't be occupied now if Nasser - a typical Middle Eastern blowhard like Saddam - hadn't tried to destroy Israel in 1968. (& let's not hear any nonsense to the effect that he didn't really intend to go to war then. Scott's lists an Egyptian stamp which was to be issued after Nasser's triumph showing him pointing gleefully to a blazing map of Israel with the caption "Israel goes up in flames!" It was never released, for obvious reasons.)

& it's quite obvious that Arafat, in spite of his supposed acceptance of the Oslo accord, never intended peace with Israel. You can thank him for having in effect elected Sharon by starting another terror campaign after negotiations broke down.

Of course Israel has not been blameless, but the notion that Israel is primarily to blame for the situation is nonsense.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael Roberts
  To: George Murphy ; Don Winterstein ; Phillip Jones ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 3:50 PM
  Subject: Re: Antony Flew shifts his position due to scientific evidence

  I would point out that if the Israeli have a right to the geographical area of Palestine then the Native American should deport all non-native Americans forthwith. George you and others have no right to live in a land forcibly taken in the last few centuries.

  To be even handed the English should leave England and hand it over to the Welsh.

  The Israeli behaviour to Palestinians has been a disgrace for 50 years

  Michael
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: George Murphy
    To: Don Winterstein ; Phillip Jones ; asa@calvin.edu
    Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 12:14 PM
    Subject: Re: Antony Flew shifts his position due to scientific evidence

    This is somewhat off the main topic. Whatever one may think of Flew's more general statements about Islam, his comment below on the present ARab-Israeli situation, while really quite obvious & elementary, shows an insight into the problem that a lot of supposed experts on the matter seem to miss.

    Shalom
    George
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Winterstein
      To: Phillip Jones ; asa@calvin.edu
      Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 4:46 AM
      Subject: Re: Antony Flew shifts his position due to scientific evidence

      www.biola.edu has an in-depth interview with Flew on this. After six pages or so it concludes with the following comments:

       It was because the whole of Palestine was part of the land of Islam that Muslim Arab armies moved in to try to destroy Israel at birth, and why the struggle for the return of the still surviving refugees and their numerous descendents continue to this day.
Received on Sat Dec 11 19:42:16 2004