From: Michael Roberts (michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Sat Sep 20 2003 - 16:10:11 EDT
Burgy
I enjoyed this in a perverse way as it highlights the problems caused by the
intolerance of YECs. I shall interpserse comments.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W Burgeson" <jwburgeson@juno.com>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Cc: <RJKO.Heyen@att.net>; <jsebeny@comcast.net>; <laheos1957@frontier.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 6:57 PM
Subject: Report on the YEC seminar in Durango, 9-2003
> Well, I've just come from a presentation at a local Durango church on why
> YEC is the only "right" position to take.
>
> Joe had emailed me privately that he personally thought a person such as
> myself, distinctly scornful of YECism, might still be a Christian.
The apostle Paul had problems with the superspiritual who doubted his faith,
see 2 Cor 11.7 and in fact the whole of chaps 10 -13. I used this as the
text of my final sermon in a church where the senior pastor doubted my
conversion.
I had
> asked him to make that point, as appropriate, in his talk. In that talk,
> he specifically said that non-YEC people were calling Jesus a liar. That
> all other interpretations than YEC "do great harm to the cause of
> Christ." That so-called "Christian" scientists doing radiometric dating
> deliberately falsify their findings.
That is a blatant false accusation. I did geology at Oxford UK in the 60s
when it was the leading age lab in UK, and we were taught about age-dating
in a very critical way. TTo suggest that any of these or age-workers like
Dalrymple (a Christian) is fankly evil and satanic.
That TEs do not worship "the God of
> the Bible."
Then nor did BBWarfield John Stoot and most evangelcials since 1730? We are
in good company..
At each of these places I listened carefully to see if he
> would give the slightest caveat; he did not.
>
> To his credit, he did say, in an unrelated discussion of evidences, that
> TEs and PCs "might" be Christians, "although in so doing they cannot be
> consistent with either science or scripture."
How gracious can he get!
But this came 10 minutes or
> so after he had said the things in the paragraph above.
>
> The book table, which was impressive, had copies of a children's book on
> "Bombey," even though that argument was demolished 20 years ago. The
> propaganda machine was rolling.
The Bombey tract is such a good one that you must use it even if it is a
tissue of lies.
>
> There was some new stuff, apparently. But I'll wait to tomorrow to give a
> full report.
>
> Joe, Roger, and Mike. This post is to an Internet LISTSERV. It will be
> "public" for some years, and will be accessed within a few days by
> perhaps 200 people, almost all of whom are both Christians and trained in
> the sciences. Most of these guys are a lot more conservative than I am,
> BTW.
Yeah, Burgy I am definitely more conservative than you!!!!! But you knew
that.
There are even two or three brave
or stubborn
YECers among them, one of whom
> knows more about coal than Stephen J. Gold knew about beetles. You are
> welcome to join in the discussion, and to correct any place I have
> unfairly reported your remarks. Just hit the reply key. Or direct your
> mail to ASA@calvin.edu. Better still, join the discussions directly; info
> on how to do this is on the ASA web site at www.asa3.org.
>
> This much more I will say, Joe. If I really believed the Bible taught
> what you think it teaches, I could not in any way take it seriously.
> Whether I would not then be a Christian, I don't know. Maybe. Might as
> well believe in Mother Goose.
>
> Burgy
>
Some months ago when I said that if given the choice of being a YEC and a
Christian or an athesit I would chosse the latter , some jumped down my
throat. I will still say that as I have yet to find a YEC whose arguments
can be considered honest in any normal sense of the word. I am quite
prepared to tell God on judgement day that I am not YEC because He wants me
to be honest and there is no place with God for those who are not.
Michael
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