From: Robert Schneider (rjschn39@bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed Sep 17 2003 - 12:38:37 EDT
The question, "Do you believe in macroevolution?" is the wrong question. I do not "believe" in evolution. I am reasonally and logically convinced of it by the overwhelming and widely diverse kinds of evidence that make it a compelling scientific explanation for the descent of life.
Bob Schneider
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexanian, Moorad
To: Walter Hicks
Cc: RFaussette@aol.com ; allenroy@peoplepc.com ; asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: Post-Empiricism Science: A little surprised
Evolution is more akin to forensic science than, say, physics. The word science in "forensic science"---just as in "historical sciences"---means that one does detective work using scientific instruments. It is certainly not an experimental science since it deals with unique events. It is the science that evolutionary theory uses that is experimental in nature not evolutionary theory itself. It is common to ask "do you believe in (macro) evolution?" Such types of questions are never asked in physics. For instance, have you ever heard anyone say "do you believe in relativity or quantum mechanics?" Are we, therefore, more in the area of "faith" rather than conventional, unadulterated science?
Moorad
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Hicks [mailto:wallyshoes@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:13 AM
To: Alexanian, Moorad
Cc: RFaussette@aol.com; allenroy@peoplepc.com; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Post-Empiricism Science: A little surprised
Does that mean that evolution is not a science? I have not heard of any predictive aspects of it.
"Alexanian, Moorad" wrote:
Ancients used to explain eclipses and why the sun rises but could not make predictions. The essence of a scientific theory is the ability to make predictions and not merely give explanations, which is pure phenomenology.
Moorad
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of RFaussette@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 7:39 AM
To: allenroy@peoplepc.com
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Post-Empiricism Science: A little surprised
In a message dated 9/17/03 1:46:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, allenroy@peoplepc.com writes:
The evolutionary paradigm is just as religious and sacred as a Creationary
paradigm. The only difference is that the evolutionary paradigm is based upon
and accepted by blind faith. It is blind because it cannot be confirmed by
anyone who could know.
T. Kuhn wrote that the strength of a hypothesis is in its explanatory value. The explanatory value of evolutionary theory is so strong and there is so much evidence for it that to dispute it at this point is to dig your head in the sand.
"If a paradigm is ever to triumph it must gain some first supporters, men who will develop it to
the point where hard headed arguments can be produced and multiplied. And even those
arguments when they come are not individually decisive.
Because scientists are reasonable men, one or another argument will ultimately persuade many
of them. But there is no single argument that can or should persuade them all. Rather than a
single group conversion, what occurs is an increasing shift in the distribution of professional
allegiances.
At the start, a new candidate for paradigm may have few supporters, and on occasion the
supporters' motives may be suspect. Nevertheless, if they are competent, they will improve it,
explore its possibilities and show what it would be like to belong to the community guided by
it. And as that goes on, if the paradigm is one destined to win its fight, the number and
strength of the professional arguments in its favor will increase.
More scientists will then be converted and the exploration of the new paradigm will go on.
Gradually the number of experiments, instruments, articles and books based upon the
paradigm will multiply. Still more men, convinced of the new view's fruitfulness will adopt the
new mode of practicing normal science, until at last only a few elderly hold-outs remain.
Though the historian can always find men, Priestley, for instance, who were unreasonable to
resist for as long as they did, he will not find a point at which resistance becomes illogical or
unscientific. At most he may wish to say that the man who continues to resist after his whole
profession has been converted has ipso facto ceased to be a scientist."
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Thomas S. Kuhns
Chapter: Resolution of Revolutions
rich faussette
--
===================================
Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
In any consistent theory, there must
exist true but not provable statements.
(Godel's Theorem)
You can only find the truth with logic
If you have already found the truth
without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
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