From: Sondra Brasile (sbrasile@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Aug 14 2003 - 12:21:14 EDT
Jay,
Sorry, I'm really behind on my reading, but I wanted to respond. Hopefully
I'm not saying the exact same thing as 100 other people, but although I
agree with you that it is initially important to believe "Jesus was exactly
who he said he was" it struck me that Satan believes more than any of us and
it isn't going to save him one iota, what do we get from that?
Sorry to anyone who already pointed that out, I'm so behind...
Sincerely,
Sondra
>From: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
>To: "Jay Willingham" <jaywillingham@cfl.rr.com>, "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
>Subject: RE: Bananas and other forbidden words.
>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:17:19 -0500
>
>Hi Jay,
>
>I am going to reverse my response compared to the way you wrote it. You
>wrote last:
> >
> >All I really care about is whether someone believes Jesus was
> >exactly who he
> >said he was, that we each need his sacrifice and resurrection to
> >be with him
> >when everything is finally revealed that great gettin' up
> >mornin'..fare thee
> >
>
>Absolutely. We agree that this is the most important thing. But, it
>doesn't
>mean that if a person believes who Jesus says he was that we can then allow
>that person to misuse facts, misuse logic and generally ignore truth.
>
>You then wrote:
>
> >
> >To me, random mutation as the genesis of life as we know it is an
>unproven
> >subjective claimed to be objective solely by acclamation by those who
>doubt
> >the truth of the Bible and strive to find the truth in things far too
> >complex to be fully measured by any tools we will ever make or fully
> >explained by any wisdom we know how to write. Not to say we shouldn't be
> >striving all the while...and one man's facts may be another man's
>bananas,
> >theoretically speaking...
>
>Let me draw another analogy. Life is an information circle. Information
>flows through many loops in a living system. From DNA, to the cellular
>machinery and then from the cellular machinery back to the DNA. Too often
>people miss this subtlety of life. They think information is a one-way
>street, DNA->RNA->protein->death. The cellular machinery and the DNA are
>two
>sides of the same information. A mold so to speak, of the other. One can't
>have DNA without cellular machinery and you can't have cellular machinery
>wihtout DNA. Lowenstein writes:
>
>"However, an unfortunate misusage has crept in in recent years. In the
>aftermath of molecular biology's triumpha march waving DNA as its banner,
>it
>became standing practice to refer to DNA as '*the information,' reserving
>this term for that molecule alone. Perhaps that came about because this
>do-nothing molecule comes closer to the abstract essence of information
>than
>the three-dimensional expressions do, or perhaps, because this molecule
>appears to be the source of information when we look just at a little
>stretch of the flow, outside the circular context. Old habits die hard, but
>let's hope that this one proves the exception because such restricted usage
>of the term obscures the picture. The molecules in both biological realms
>carry information--an RNA, a protein, or a sugar is as much an
>informational
>molecule as DNA is. The quantities they carry individually are different,
>to
>be sure, but if wwe could weigh tth total amounts of core information in
>the molecules of the two realms, they would about balance--the two realms
>are but the flip sides of the same information." Werner Lowenstein, The
>Touchstone of Life, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1999), p. 114-115
>
>Now, this is like is something like we see happening in nature. The
>moleucules of air move randomly, bumping into each other. But when heating
>overheats a part of the ground, the air picks up the heat, and begins to
>rise. That rising makes a low pressure area so air flows into it from all
>direction. But the coriolis force causes the air to spontaneously form a
>loop with feedbacks. The air that flows in, heats and then begins rising,
>drawing more air in from the outer regions. The rising air rises, cools
>and
>spreads out at some height. But as it cools it begins to sink, flowing into
>the regions evacuated by air flowing into the rising column. This completes
>the loop.
>
>This loop is a convection cell. It feeds itself, organizes the air motion,
>gives information to the molecules as to how they should move, and in
>general this loop governs everything from dust devils to tornados to
>hurricanes. In Hurricanes, if you have ever been through one (I have been
>through 2) you can see the grand circulation of the hurricane, but there
>are
>also tornados which organize themselves from the eddies occurring in the
>larger structure. And then even small 100 m high dustdevil type
>circulations
>occur in hurricanes as well but they are quickly ripped apart.
>
>We, meaning living beings, are information loops. They didn't have to
>start
>out as complex as they are today. They could have easily started as a few
>molecules of RNA which mediated each other's construction. Mutation would
>find other cases and the feed back loop was on. Just like the rising of
>heated air can lead to a hurricane, information loops led to matter storms.
>We are matterstorms. We self-organize in our mother's womb's enlarge our
>selves by consuming lots of energy (which parents refer to as 'eating us
>out
>of house and home') and then the storm dissipates when death occurs.
>
>So, it isn't all wishful thinking as you would prefer to believe. We see
>information flows on several levels all with feedback loops. The
>Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction in chemistry has a macroscopic organization
>which is an informatoin loop in a dish containing malonic acid, potassium
>bromate, and ceric sulfate. Look it up on the internet.
>http://people.musc.edu/~alievr/ is a good one with a movie. Where did the
>information for the spiralling waves of this reaction come from? Is God's
>finger stirring the waters there?
>
>Loops feedback information and give time for mutation to find novel
>additions to the loop.
>
>
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