From: Alexanian, Moorad (alexanian@uncw.edu)
Date: Tue Mar 25 2003 - 09:42:14 EST
I believe homosexuality was very prevalent in ancient Greece and it
seems to me that early Christians would have taken a definite opposition
to such behavior. Therefore, I believe that some knowledge of Greek
history should make it clear what the meaning of the words are. I do not
think we ought to rely on present day revisionism to accommodate one's
own view on the matter. Moorad
-----Original Message-----
From: bob_miller [mailto:bob_miller@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 5:22 PM
To: Robert Schneider; ASA list
Subject: Re: a few responses lumped together (Jim and Burgy take note)
Gordon Fee discusses the difficulty with arsenokoitai being translated
homosexual, in his commentary on 1 Corinthians but rejects Boswell's
conclusion. He states that the word appears in a list heavily weighted
toward sexual sins and "Although one can not be certain, it is very
likely that the NIV is moving toward a proper understanding by
translating 'male prostitute' and 'homosexual offender,' with the
proviso that 'male prostitute' most likely denotes a consenting
homosexual youth."
Strong's Lexicon gives "one who lies with a male as with a female."
Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Sematic Domains gives, "male
homosexual, one who takes the active male role in homosexual
intercourse."
New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries gives, "a
sodomite, homosexual"
George Lamsa's translation gives "...men who lie with men."
A Translator's Handbook on Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians, Paul
Ellingworth and Howard Halton gives, " Sexual perverts (RSV) translates
two Greek words which refer respectively to the 'passive and active
partners ... in male homosexual relations.' (Barrett)."
Bob Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Schneider" <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>
To: "gordon brown" <gbrown@euclid.colorado.edu>; "John Burgeson"
<burgythree@hotmail.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: a few responses lumped together (Jim and Burgy take note)
> Gordon's memory is correct: the Greek word rendered as "homosexuals"
> in
the
> NASB is "arsenokoitai." It is composed of the noun "arsen" meaning
> "male" and the noun "koite," which refers to the "marriage bed" in
> Greek drama.
In
> classical Greek "koite" is used in a bad sense to denote (I love this
> old
> word) "chambering" or "lavisciousness." Paul uses the pl. "koitai" in
Rom.
> 13:13, where the RSV translates it "debauchery" and the KJV
> "chambering." So, it appears that a word ending in "-koitai" refers to
> those who fool around in the chamber, i.e., in bed.
>
> Then, the question is, does "arseno-" refer to men who fool around in
> bed with whomever, or men who fool around in bed with men? John
> Boswell, who made a study of the matter, prefers the former
> interpretation; he asserts that there are no compound words in Greek
> in which "arseno-" as a prefix
"is
> demonstrably objective," i.e., denoting the object of an action, etc.
Thus,
> he interprets the word to refer to a male prostitute, "capable of the
active
> role with either men or women:." He supports his interpretation by
> noting that in the vast literature on homoerotic sexuality in classic
> Greek, this word is never used to connote sexual activity between men;
> also, neither Josephus or Philo, Greek-speaking Jews use it when
> discussing the story of Sodom.
>
> Even more interesting, in his survey of the church fathers' comments
> on homosexual behavior, none of them, in their condemnations of
> homosexual
acts
> and relations, used "arsenokoitai" as a term to refer to same sex acts
> against men. Even John Chrysostom in his comments on I Cor. 6:9 and I
> Tim.1:10, where the word also occurs, does not say a thing about
> sexual activity. "In fact, on several occasions Chrysostom copied out
> the list
of
> sins from Corinthians and actually ommitted the one word which is
> claimed
to
> mean homosexual"; considering that elsewhere Chrysostom referred to
> same
sex
> sexual activity as "the worst of sins," it is inconceivable that he
> would have omitted "arsenokoitai" if he understood it to refer to
> homosexual activity. (Boswell, _Christianity, Social Tolerance, and
> Homosexuality_,
p.
> 341-348).
>
> While "arsenokoitai" has a long history of being translated in I Cor.
> 6:9 with such words and phrases as "liars [i.e., those who lie--in a
> prone position] with mankind" "sodomites" "abusers of themselves with
> mankind,"
it
> may be that the translators should reconsider these renderings, given
> the history of this rather rare word. It may be, as Boswell suggests,
> that
St.
> Paul was referring to male prostitutes who serviced either sex.
>
> Bob Schneider
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue Mar 25 2003 - 09:42:45 EST