Jon,
I tried to interlineate my responses below by starting each with "Jon" and
ending with "Jay".
This may be too unwieldy. Sorry.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Clarke" <jdac@alphalink.com.au>
To: "Jay Willingham" <jaywillingham@cfl.rr.com>
Cc: <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>; "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Rennie's Rant
> Jay
>
> The heart of Michael's comment was "Creationists do the cause of the
Gospel
> incredible damage."
>
> I would strongly support this, based on my own experience. You have not
> addressed this.
Jon, Yes I did. I said both sides do themselves damage. Vituperative and
ad hominem attacks in debate are self defeating. Jay
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The problem I have encountered with many scientists is their complete
refusal
> to admit that their theories or hypothesis are not facts. They cling to
them
> with great faith but seem to be unable to deal with genuine challenges to
> numerous assumptions."
>
> Since we are talking about YEC, please give specific examples with respect
to
> fundamental geological principles, particular in the area of stratigraphy,
> sedimentology, palaeontology.
Jon, I was talking about Rennie, SA and National Geo. How about assumptions
regarding time and processes over time cutting across all of them. Jay
>
> You wrote:
>
> "We believe our modern science is infallible."
>
> YEC does not challenge is not modern science, i.e. the latest
controversial
> hypothesis, but understandings that have mostly been established for
centuries
> and repeatedly tested and verified over that period. Basic stratigraphy
was
> established by Steno in the mid 17th century, longer than Newton's laws.
The
> great age of the earth was recognised by the mid 18th century by people
such as
> Lhwyd, somewhat before Linnaeus revolutionised taxonomy. Biostratigraphy
was
> established in the early 19th century by Cuvier and others, in the same
time
> frame that the foundations of thermodynamics were laid. Organic evolution
in the
> general sense (descent with modification) was accepted my most people
(including
> many evangelicals) from the late 19th century, before Maxwell's work on
> electro-magnetism. Radiometric dating was first used in 1913, and is
better
> established than the photoelectric effect.
Jon, There are those and other theories that involve assumptions, again,
about time and natural process rates over time.
>
> Which "postulates" of YEC would you have no trouble defending?
Jon, Give me a list of postulates and I will let you know. As I recall my
post dealt specifically with Hoesch's piece as a contrast to Rennie's, not
YEC as an abstraction or group. This list has shown me that, reasonable
men differ within the macroevolution and YEC camps. Jay
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
> "It is not easy to see how the more extreme forms of nationalism can long
> survive when men have seen the earth as a pale crescent dwindling against
the
> stars, until at last they look for it in vain".
>
> Arthur C. Clarke
>
>
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